Peaklander

Yes that’s what I’m hoping will happen. New 20 thou rings and a hone then away we go, but I will measure first anyway. Mobile re-honing isn’t something I thought to Google. This is a surprise as I seem to Google everything else. So thank you again @western. Edit: The people at Sheffield Engineering Services said that a hand held honer would be fine to use. They said that it should only need twenty up/downs to sufficiently hone each bore. Any more than that would remove too much metal and create a taper or whatever. By the way I hadn’t realised that the Overhaul manual is different to the Workshop manual. I have a pdf copy of both but have never looked at the Overhaul manual. What a twit.

I have had time to check this. Standard bore diameter is 90.47mm from the above, a piston size of 90.395 gives a clearance of 0.075 or 3 thou of an inch and using that: an oversize piston of 90.649 would give a bore of 90.724 which is +10 thou and oversize piston of 90.903 would give a bore of 90.978 which is +20 thou and +40 thou would mean piston size of 91.411 and a bore of 91.486. Turners show this size on their website as @western showed earlier. In fact they list a +40 and a +40 replacement. These two have different prices so I don't know whats happening there but it does appear that there is are two oversizes at 20 and 40 not the 10 and 20 that the manual shows. My piston does indeed measure at 90.903 so @cackshifter is correct and I am happier as there is another size to go if I need it (cough).

Well it looks plausible! I’m not having a garage day but can’t wait to get back out and check. I spend so much time in there as it is, it’s referred to as Grampy’s house.

Thanks @monkie I will. I have some experience with gauge R & R but not measuring bores. That was weighing of full drinks cartons.

I’m trying to soak up all this advice and determine what the next action should be. The machine shop has been there for years and has a big turnover of work. When they say “measure if you want but the bores won’t be warn” then I have to take that as reliable. I was interested to hear that they rebuild Land Rover engines that the army send from Devon. I said I will measure so I will. I hope I do it accurately enough to make a decision.

Got some (good) family distractions preventing me commenting in detail to all this good advice. I really appreciate it. Just to clear up a comment or two, whatever has happened to this engine like overheating or water, has happened before I bought it. That was five years ago and something like 30-40K miles. I’ve driven it all over Europe, up to 2,400m and some long distances. It has never missed a beat. The first ever problem really has been the white smoke a couple of weeks ago. So I trust it and I now have a fully checked out head as it passed all the tests. The question about block out is really not what I want to do. I replaced the clutch etc last year at chassis swap and did the timing belt not long before that The engineering shop say it’s absolutely not necessary to rebore as it will not need it and that’s after looking at the pistons and my pics and description of the bores. I will measure it though and try to get solid data. For that I’d like to thank @nickwilliams who has lent me the measuring kit to do this. The pistons by the way are +20 and the crank is at original size.

There aren’t any ridges to feel. In fact I can’t feel any imperfections at all. Non of the marks can be felt. It is possible that #4 marks are a smear of oil or something. I’ll check again and look at the pistons more closely. I really didn’t think we would be talking about a new engine 😱

Your post is confusing Red. What are you saying here? Is it because the topic title is white smoke? That was the initial problem. This oil issue is an additional problem that I noticed. I took your advice and that of others and have pulled the pistons for a better look. I am a novice though. An older novice but a novice nonetheless. 😀

Rings are sharp! I hadn't realised but haven't drawn blood. I will need to hone by hand too (using one of those flexi shafts - is that what you mean?) as it isn't practical to try to get the block out.

Western how are these used? Does a machine shop need to fit them? They must need pressing and machining somehow?

The other cylinders. These four are #3 Then these are #4

Here we have the bore pics. There are four per bore, starting with #1 Then bore #2

Thanks Western that's helpful. I think this is where I am: possible high crankcase pressure pushing oil around, still to find the cause. It isn't the turbo The stem seals weren't in place but whilst this would have contributed to the pooling of oil in the cylinders, they wouldn't have produced the oil around the whole intake circuit The pistons are out and can be measured The rings can be checked and measured, bearing in mind the mark on #2 and the sticky ring slot which I have just noticed The bores need to be measured - I don't know how I will do that - and they might need a hone and I don't yet have a tool but I can see that they are available for in-situ use. I need to upload some pics of the bores (on another camera) so that you guys can advise on the honing I will have a known good head to refit I already have a no-hole Elring gasket as that's the thickness that I took off The engineering shop highly recommend new bolts. I know what's allowed (up top x5 times re-use) but they really were strong on that one.

Yes it was - as I said up the page, it was a challenge then and it has come back to bite me.

Don't forget that the initial reason for the thread was white smoke and I always thought that was timing and or injector related. The timing is OK but a couple of injectors were not, as mentioned higher up the thread. I replaced the glowplugs because they were out and may as well have x4 working. As for the mark on cylinder 2 bore, this is the piston from there and the second photo is one of the others. As you can see, there is gunk at the scraper ring (bottom one) and it is sticky to turn. I imagine that might be the cause. The whole piston looks dirtier. As I said before, the mark is as imperceptible to a finger as are the honing swirls but I think that the latter are there to hold lubricant and if they can, then those ring marks could perhaps cause a problem.

I have removed the pistons and noted orientation of the caps and taken some pics. I have yet to look at the shells but the rings appear sound but I assume they wear, maybe getting thinner? The company looking at the head say: 1. Valves all ok on a vacuum test 2. Guides measure ok 3. Between 2 and 3 was a tiny deviation (low?) but they have removed this with the thinnest of skims. Don’t know what they have taken off but negligible they say 4. Rather embarrassingly, all the stem seals were up and that’s my oil they believe. I had such a saga changing these in 2016 I think and I can’t understand why. I had even gone to Turners and got a second set. Anyhow they have fitted another genuine set and say that these won’t come off. 5. The head is being washed and I can pick up tomorrow They also asked me to take them the pistons which they will measure. So I’ll keep them in sets and take the shells too. I will need to find a way of checking the bores as I don’t have anything. Also I will try some more bore pictures for your consideration as to any honing that might be needed. Thanks for the support.

I tried to take more photos of the bores but it's very hard with poor light and shadows but I'm going to remove the pistons as I really need to get to the bottom of this (no pun intended). So the front axle is on big stands to give me a little more room underneath. At least I'm inside the garage out of the weather. I've drained the oil, dropped the sump and removed the strainer pipes. So now I just have to undo the bearing caps and push them out and go steady, trying to see what things look like as they pop out. Cup of tea first and then I'll be back with an update 😀

Oh so already been re-bored? Took injectors out first as was chasing the white smoke. It was just when I was about to refit the shiny new ones that I saw the oil. Edit: The people at AET Turbos had one look at the turbo this morning and said without a doubt that it's perfect. For there to be any issue with the seals there would be play on the impeller and there is none. So the oil is coming from somewhere else.

These are the injectors immediately after removal, with #1 on the right. So #4 was wet in the cylinder but there was plenty of oil around outside #2 which is next to the separator and drain pipe. for a few week I had been trying to find out where the oil on the outside of the engine has been coming from and had already been around the breather pipe connections, checking them and I cleaned the separator. I will take some photos of the other bores to show that the honing marks are still present. There's no step at the top of any bores. I do understand the advice about pulling the piston in the #2 bore which has the slight mark. It makes me slightly nervous as I will have to then decide if I should pull the other pistons, re-hone that bore and not the others etc. etc. I will need some guidance on that. First of all today I will arrange to try to get the turbo checked out. Also I'll hear back about the head checks. Then read up about releasing pistons.

I'm no seasoned Land Rover owner so I have little experience. In the dark with a vehicle behind, you can see some smoke but it's not really noticeable in the day but I have been wondering if things are ok. I had seen more oil in the airways than I was comfortable with and was keeping an eye on it. The trigger to investigate "the engine" though, was the white smoke that prompted this thread but of course the probable causes of that and then this issue, are different - I assume. It was only yesterday when I thought that there might be oil in the bores that I decided to lift the head. In spite of my lack of experience I think this is excessive. Oil was pooling on the intake side of the turbo, the intercooler has it, the inlet ports have it and the pistons too. Whether its the turbo or bores well who knows? I hope I can get the turbo checked and then we will see. The funny thing is that I was wondering just a few days ago about getting one of those leak-down kits or at least a compression tester. I was trying to buy a Sykes Pickavant kit on FB and then the guy pulled it. Anyway it's in bits now and the opportunity to test the lump as a whole has now gone. If I push that piston out, what will I be looking for, a faulty ring? Wouldn't that cause far more damage?

Air filter was replaced early summer 2018 and is still clean. The head bolts were tight. I haven't undone any before but they all needed a very good tug with a 1/2" breaker bar. (I used the correct sequence too). The workshop looking at the head say that the surface looks to be in very good condition. Edit: the turbo oil supply and return pipes were new when it was re-fitted. They are clear now too.

Right, got an update (and tea is late). There is oil pooling in the bottom of the intercooler. On tipping it out, it half filled an aerosol cap. So it was a fair amount. I can't see even if the cyclone separator has failed, that there can be so much oil in those recirculating gases. I think it has to be the turbo and I have removed it ready to take it to AET near Wakefield to see what they say. It was fitted in August 2018 and since then, without checking, I've probably done 6,000 miles (only). How so much oil can circulate around and not cause a bigger issue, I don't know. I really appreciate the help from everyone. Thanks

Speedo is 166K but it was a Turner supplied re-build at 39K (don't know why) so 127K miles.

If you mean the honing marks, they haven't gone. They are all there except on that bit in the one bore that I have shown. Even there I can't feel any surface imperfection. Not saying that there isn't any but surely that's not enough to need a "bottom end" is it?

Why do you say that the bores are worn? The only "show" that I can see is on the one cylinder i photographed and that is at the back not on the sides with thrust. I'm told that it might be a little diesel wash caused by one of my faulty injectors. I didn't log which injectors came out of which cylinder and I can't be sure that the number on the injector was in the corresponding bore. I have dropped off the head and gasket at Sheffield Engineering Services and had a good discussion with the guys there and showed them the photos. They say that there are signs that #4 and #1 were starting to blow but not reaching outside or an oilway. This could have caused a drop in compression and incorrect burn and the white smoke. They are puzzled by the oil (which is thick and dark so engine oil). They agree that it has been "wet" and there was still plenty of oil around after the trip over there. The head appears to be in very good condition but they will leak test, strip and measure, thinking about valve guide wear and stem seals, even though we think that this will simply be eliminating the head from enquiries. Maybe I will need to remove the turbo and go on a longer journey, to the place where I got it from in Summer 2018. Presumably they can verify the seals. Tomorrow I will lift the intercooler out but it doesn't seem long since I did this as I had taken delivery of another, that I then decided not to use. That was during last year I think. Having looked at the video to which I linked earlier, I see that it's impossible to open the oil separator and still use it but maybe I will and maybe I'll buy another or something a bit better. The one in the video doesn't have any gauze or mesh, just the diaphragm and spring. Certainly to have the same amount of oil in each bore and inlet ports, points to a common source like the turbo or separator. Still I am glad I took the head off. I guess what happens next on the block depends on whether @Red90 is correct.