Bigj66
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Posts posted by Bigj66
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That’s a relief to hear as yes, there are many scare mongers out there.
I’ve still got some reading to do on the subject mostly earlier threads on the conversion and the problems others came across but I think I have most of the material now that I’ll need to get it done.
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Another question regarding the issue of leaking thin walled cylinder blocks caused by poor machining. Was this quality issue ever resolved by Landrover before production of the Thor V8 ceased? Or, are the Thor engine blocks just as likely to have similar problems?
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My R380 has the higher ratio transfer box off a Disco 2 fitted. Reading through a couple of members build threads I get the impression that this setup could be a bit over geared for even the 4.6 V8.
I’ve always assumed the V8 will out perform any of the Landrover Diesel engines in terms of both power and torque so I’d be interested to hear from anyone who has experience of this.
The air box arrangement also seems to present some challenges to get right. With that in mind does the GEMS engine plenum provide a bit more space for pipe work etc than the THOR?
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I ended up buying that spring and fitting was no more difficult than the similar ones from the usual suppliers. Well worth the price and effort👍
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10 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:
In my experience adapting a loom is nearly as much work as re-doing it from scratch.
If there's a V8 loom that plugs into the TD5-era "body" loom (perhaps D2 V8?) then you'd be better off but I wouldn't fancy trying to make a TD5 engine loom into a V8 loom.
Oh and Nige sells engine looms ready-made I believe, which could save a LOT of time.
Yeah I’ve seen his looms and they look good but I’m talking more about stripping out any redundant TD5 wiring but keeping the bits for things like the starter and alternator as well as temp gauges etc.
I really need to study the diagrams and look at my loom in more detail but I’m not fazed by doing that sort of work.
I recall that Nige sells loom plugs so I can make sure any alterations are electrically sound and safe.
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45 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said:
The dash harness is the backbone of the electrical system and connected to it are the 2 wing harnesses, the engine harness and the rear harness.
Mo
So if the engine harness also contains the charging and instrumentation wiring then it sounds like I need to retain it and then adapt it for the V8 requirements.
Or strip out the TD5 redundant wiring and make a separate engine loom for the V8.🤔
Either way it will be doable. Cheers.
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Questions about the wiring loom arrangement on a 110 TD5.
Is the wiring loom split into sections that can be easily isolated from each other without affecting other parts of they system?
I have this circuit diagram but it doesn’t tell me much about the layout.
landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Defender%20MY2002%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf
I’m thinking about the engine loom in particular so for instance, could I disconnect the ECU and the injector loom but retain the charging/ instrument circuit wiring? Same for things like the throttle pedal harness. Could this be simply unplugged from the main loom once it’s no longer required by the V8? Is it possible to buy caps that can fit over the end of unused loom plugs to prevent dirt or moisture from getting in rather than wrapping them with electrical tape etc?
Chopping wires isn’t really my thing so if it’s all one loom then I’ll need to think about unwrapping it, pulling the redundant wiring out and then rewrapping it.
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2 hours ago, Bowie69 said:
No need for an ISV....
ISV? is that like BTDT?🤷♂️
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Cheers, that’s an easy fix then.👍
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Does the Thor use a cable as standard or did they move to fly by wire?
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13 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:
You'll need a cable operated pedal, whichever flavour of rover V8 you go with.
Unless you convert to e-throttle, now that would be funky
You'd need a throttle body off another car to graft onto your existing plenum, but all doable if you really wanted
Could I just fit a complete throttle assembly off a P38 Thor?
Or a Defender tdi pedal maybe 🤔
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One other query. Will I need to change my throttle pedal as I think it’s currently an electronic type rather than a cable.
What does the Thor engine use?
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8 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:
Yep - the engine end can stay mostly the same depending which exact route you go (option 1,2,3 from my last post) it's just the ECU end has a different plug and may swap or ignore a couple of things.
I probably need to look closer at options 1 or 3 and decide from there I think. I’ll take a look at your build thread again.
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5 hours ago, Bowie69 said:
It is cheaper if you get the original loom and modify, up to you really.
Do you mean fit the MS ECU plug to the existing loom?
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54 minutes ago, Escape said:
You should be able to find a running P38 for a good price. That will give you an engine and wiring loom, as well as the correct fuel pump and enough parts to sell on to buy you a MS.
It is possible to run MS directly from the P38 flywheel and crank sensor, we have one in a Classic auto (with EDIS) and a 'prototype' on a P38 manual, with direct coil drive (thanks to @FridgeFreezer). The later Thor was never mated to a manual, so only has the flywheel for an autobox. You can mix and match, though manual flywheels for the later engines aren't that easy to find. Older flywheels don't have the timing teeth for the crank position sensor, which is why MS often uses a separate timing wheel.
Filip
Thanks Filip
I have a CPS on my Cosworth engine but it’s fitted to the crank pulley. Is this where the MS timing wheel is located on the V8?
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1 minute ago, elbekko said:
No, MS will run it without issue. You just need slightly higher fuel pressure.
The Thor in-tank pump has an internal regulator and return, which means there is no return from the Thor fuel rail. The Thor in-tank pump fits just as easily as a GEMS or Serp pump, they're all the same top anyway.
That’s great information, thanks very much.👍
If using MS then, I will only need to find a complete engine and don’t really need to worry about things like the ECU and loom do I? There are some out there on EBay etc but some are high mileage and some are exchange only so it might take a bit of patience before I find a suitable one. If I can find a complete vehicle then that’s great but I don’t want to be paying over 3k for a vehicle just for its engine.
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43 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:
Anything fits, but won't fit your current gearbox
Ok so is that because they have a different bell housing bolt pattern to the earlier V8s? Maybe a different crank bolt pattern for a flywheel too...🤔
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Out of curiosity, do the later 4.4 engines also fit or are they a completely different engine all together?
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8 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:
Thor uses slightly higher fuel line pressure, that's it (I believe), the earlier fuel pump is more than capable of producing 100psi (around 40 more than is needed) and will flow plenty too.
So it will work, you may have to twiddle the plumbing slightly but hey, you have a big project anyways, it is a tiny, tiny detail
Excellent news. The only big challenge now is to find a suitable engine complete with all ancillaries...🙄
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7 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:
MS will run anything, including thor stuff.
To be honest, don't muck about, while you can run using Rover ecus, MS is just better in every respect.
Cheers, the argument for MS has been convincing chaps 😂
But, have I understood correctly that the Thor engine will not be compatible with the in tank pump as used on the 3.9 and 4.2 SERP engines? My idea was to replace the TD5 pump with one of those.
Here is a summary of what I think I need to complete this swap. Feel free to correct or add anything that I’ve missed.
R380 V8 bellhousing
R380 Defender V8 input shaft
Manual V8 flywheel
Spigot Bush
V8 Defender clutch and slave cylinder
V8/TD5 hybrid exhaust or bespoke stainless system
4.6 engine with MS ECU (engine to be confirmed but preferably a Thor)
V8 Defender radiator
TD5 airbox reused?
Engine mounts altered to suit
Power steering pipe work modifications as required
RRC 3.9 in tank fuel pump with adjustable FPR
Remote oil filter (Mocal)
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On 1/13/2020 at 7:51 PM, dave88sw said:
I would put money on the loom being chaffed where it crosses over the top of the transfer box, particularly if it does it when you lift off and the transfer box shifts on its mounts...
Remove cubby box and access panel beneath and check the loom thoroughly.
I had a very similar problem with my Softdash RRC some years ago and it turned out to be the loom had been touching the exhaust at some point before I owned it and had burnt through the insulation. The loom had been tucked back up but the damage had not been repaired. Every now and then when going over a bump or cornering the bare fuel pump feed earthed out on the chassis and blew the supply fuse. When I tested the loom it seemed okay as the wire was no longer earthed and the supply voltage to the pump was fine, until the next time it touched and so on.
Took ages to trace it as it was quite high up in the chassis but although this fault sounds similar, it’s strange that the pump always runs immediately after it cuts out which is why I asked my original question. Ordinarily, you would expect a fuse to blow if there was even a temporary short to earth but maybe this is just an odd case 🤷♂️
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2 hours ago, Bowie69 said:
Been there done that.
Ah, ok 👍
So just to clarify, a Thor engine will only run with its matching ECU which would be quite difficult to run as a standalone or even with MS due to fuel pump compatibility?
Next best option would be a GEMS 4.6 engine using either an unlocked factory ECU or, MS?
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2 hours ago, elbekko said:
Unless the regulator is in the pump, as is the case with the Thor one.
BTDT, does not work with Thor injectors and a GEMS fuel pump.
BTDT??
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31 minutes ago, RedLineMike said:
fuel pressure regulator controls the pressure, not the pump
Just for comparison, do you know what pressure the 3.9 SERP runs at?
TD5 to V8
in Defender Forum (1983 - 2016)
Posted
How come a Defender V8 pipe can’t be used? I did read about this in your build thread and meant to ask.