Jocklandjohn

Aye next step is 19mm box at 350mm centres on the lifting bit (which is 100mm deep) onto which there will be 1.2mm alloy sheet stuck to form the roof. The 19mm box will go under the edge of the 3mm thick L section that makes the lifting top, with a 3mm packer on top of the box to bring up to flush on top for the sheet to be fitted (If that makes sense) and the combined depth of 19mm box and 3mm packer gives me just over 20mm for insulation - all the poly sheet stuff is a minimum of 20mm so that solves that problem. So the roof will be top>bottom 1.2mm alloy sheet 3mm packer 19mm box with lightweight expanded foam insulation beside it in the gap 4mm ply (flooring ply). Thin inner fabric So about 25mm overall of insulation and strength, but light. I wont cut all the old roof out. I'll only go as far as the joint where it slopes down to the windscreen. There's a big strengthening rib under there which I'll keep, and cut out all the rest right back to about 50mm from the rear above the quarter lights. The existing roof 'curves' on each side will be retained, and cut where they hit the flat of the existing roof. That 'cup' will be lined and will be able to store the rolled fabric sides when they come in as the roof closes, along with two corner rods that lock the roof open on the gas struts, and which will give a hard and rigid 'corner' around which the fabric will be formed and kept taut. That sloping bit above the windscreen will have a fixed board over it, bolted in and structural. I can put a small hatch in that to get access underneath for concealed storage. And it will also mean that from below in the seating area I can put overhead sunk-in radio binnacle or whatever above my head.

Sunk several 4x4 inch posts as corners and middles into postcrete and suspended a shed on them. Perfect because no dampness comes up. Mind you I did go ott a wee bit as its got a covered porch with clear plastic roof, a wood drying section at one end with a flap in the wall to lob woodstove wood through to the inside onto the wood stack, and a few other 'features' that make it 'homely'. Just built my 5 year old a 'shed' too, on stilts. Have to say it looks more like a deer stand but he thinks its great - especially as its got no door - you go in through a hatch in the floor, Had 7 children in it last week with a packet of digestives. Class. Wee lad wants a 'water feature' in it now! I think that will be plastic pipe and a funnel driving a waterwheel (only small - made that last week) and it can be 'adapted' to be a giant marble run instead of water which will be pretty cool methinks. I've told him he cant have a woodstove in it.

Re hinge. It's stainless steel, 25mm closed, 50mm open. 2.5mm thick material with 7mm pin and 1.8m long. It is a work of art. I phoned a few places and got silly quotes. How about £65 for the hinge, add £30 for the holes (!) and then £45 delivery to Scotland PLUS vat. Nah. Tried a few more, some didn't even reply, and finally called Cooke Brothers and joy of joys - sensible people! Yes sir stainless hinge to suit your needs - how about £35, oh with holes? er £39. And delivery - £12, anywhere in UK. Total with VAT £61. And it was made to suit, for me by the craftsmen at Cookes in-house one day, posted the next, arrived the next. It is a work of art, literally lovely workmanship. Smooth action, perfect finish, countersunk perfectly and just 'class'. I can recommend heartily.

Managed to get into the welders today. Sat the four panels for the 'base' on the floor and we tacked the corners to get started. Tried it on the roof of the 110 - it's not heavy, so easy to do and it fitted perfectly, absolutely spot on with no slack anywhere and front joint was tight. So the full welds applied. Then the bits for the lifting top section sides and rear were fitted, cut to size and mitered on the chop saw, and tacked to hold. I cut the stainless hinge so we'd got an accurate height and drilled and self-tapped it in place temporarily, and put a few pieces of the rubber U section gasket that seals the lid to base on as well so we have an accurate width/height, and then the front sloping bit was folded to the right height and to suit the windscreen slope. ] Next I cut the angles for the front corners with the grinder as they were weird multi-angles cuts so could not use the chop saw. When I had it all propped together we measured it and I was .5mm out in the width. Not bad, and easy to weld-fill. So that was tacked to hold, and then whilst I got the subframe box section for the lifting top prepared Stevie welded up all the seams. Or rather some of them. The effing welder packed in and we couldn't fix it to be able to do the last two rear corner seams. However we got it to the point where I could sit it on the roof and drive it home, and Stevie had other stuff that needed doing anyway. Got it home with no drama. You can see the shape in the view from above (below). I'll get a wooden jig cut to hold the 19m box section for the roof which will mean I can turn the lid over, drop the wood inside (2 strips of 50x25mm) with slots for the box section and then Stevie can simply tack them without having to mess about measuring. I've got some brackets I made for the front to hold the sloping bit above windscreen to the roof and they need welding in and that'll be the front fixed tight. Back end is just bolted through the existing rear above the 1/4 light. Simple. Still undecided on the method fixing the sides of the lower section where they join with the curve of the old roof - maybe a combination of a few small brackets welded on and some pop-rivets with a squish of builders foam all round. It looks 'big' because its coming up from the gutter line, but in reality the final roof has ended up only 5 1/2 inches (140 mm) higher than the original roof, which is still 1 inch (25mm) less than the height of my old roof rack.

No criticism detected! Just genuine curiosity, which is great. Questioning what I'm doing is good because it makes me think about whats going on too! The fancy metalwork at the back is necessary where the door goes up into the gutter line. This requires any method of using and lifting the original roof take that into account and whatever is fabricated would need to be made to have that door shape created, with rubber seals etc. The way I'm doing it is to simply use the existing roof guttering and raise the roof a few inches and provide both rigidity and as best as I can ensure its all watertight - I dont want to be lying in bed with my feet in a puddle!

Hi A Twig - yes have seen all of them - the germans. swiss, australian and even the norwegian versions. The 'problem' I could foresee doing the 'lift-the-existing-roof' route is that you have to do some fancy metalwork over the windscreen and where the back door closes 'up' into the gutter line. The way I tackled it means I simply use the existing gutter to build up out of and retain sufficient of the old roof to provide integrity. That also retains the waterproofing of the original vehicle (ho! ho! ho! I wish!) but it also means its mostly doable on the drive without major tooling. And once its fitted I can mess around with various gasket and sealing methods and do lots of hose tests before I commit to getting the jigsaw to the old roof and actually whack a huge piece out of it. In fact the sloping front roof above the front seats can be retained complete with the strengthening rib that lies beneath the joint between sloping front and flat top, making the front very strong when its all bolted to the sleeping frame at front - I'm aiming for the sleeping area being pretty much on top of the existing roof within the new structure. I can even fabricate in a little concealed hatch in that area accessible from the bed area down into the void created between the bed base and the roof top above drivers head to store stuff. Might need to go lower with the bed but until I actually get the lid on it and try lying down and see how far towards the front I can go before my feet get snagged I wont know for sure. Basically the outside is pretty much sorted size-wise but how I do the inside will be more organic. Ps and watched the above Youtube vid too - but that gives several major leak points not the least of which is the transverse one at front - mind you whether its any more leaky than original is debatable!

Ah you lads are a positive cornucopia of sage advice! Brilliant thanks!

Thanks Boydie - that sounds more 'reasonable' than buying two new complete assemblies (which are not cheap!).

Cheers Paul - appreciate that. Is the pipe something that's easily available? Or is there some secret alternative like fishtank ducting or hamster water dripper that only those in the know are aware of? :-)

Are these both banjo fittings? And if so are they some fancy bonded pipe stuff at the union, or is the plastic breather pipe able to be easily replaced and the banjo fitting re-used? (Have not got my head in there yet for a look).

Thanks Simon - yes the elasticated fabric is the way to go - several loops of nylon sewn into sides and back and a loop of elastic through so when its closing the fabric is pulled inwards. These actuators might be a useful addition - giving that some thought!

It sounds interesting! I'd intended to have a couple of thin struts that would pop in place inside at the two rear corners to provide absolute integrity and form a 'corner' around which the fabric could go giving good tension and a couple of little nylon ties sewn into the corners inside would allow me to tie the fabric round the struts. These struts might also form part of an internal locking mechanism when in the closed position. I either have some clasps on the outside or some method inside, but I have to bear in mind that the fabric will be coming inside and needs to be considered and worked around so its not pinched or snagged.

Lifting part: roughly about 35kg (or 75lbs) or thereabouts at the most as far as I can establish (not done a critical estimate). Depends on sheet thickness I use: either 2mm or 1.2mm. And canoes are 60lbs each, sometimes only one carried, occasionally two.

Whoa! Cool stuff! I never knew! Might be overkill though - I intended getting inside and pushing! Right, must keep THAT in mind too!

I'm hoping that roof will be strong enough to be lifted with some stuff on it. I'll see when I get it all on and built and have a sense of how 'wobbly' it is - it needs a bit of flex as the whole van flexes so I'm taking that into account with some locating pins for the roof where it comes down and joins the rear. What do these actuators do? Actually lift stuff or what?

The roof hatch (boat deck hatch) I'm fitting protrudes 43mm above the roof surface so that needs some clearance. Also my sea canoe set up requires a set of J bars for the two boats and I use a long ski box for paddles and wet gear so that requires a bar-across system to fasten the stuff to. The rack will have some polypipe around the front and rear bars to allow me to easily 'roll' a canadian canoe up onto the top. I did consider the stronger roof method but I need the versatility and practicality of some minimal bars. I have some ideas for making them removable, so all that's 'permanent' are two welded on pieces of flat bar one on each side with bolt holes for fixing the cross pieces and cut outs in the flat bar for tie down straps. I can plug the pipe ends for the cross pieces of rack and tap them, then drill and countersink the sides and fit nice stainless c/sunk bolts to hold it all together. It's always a trade-off!

I mentioned this before on the forum. Well I gave it some thought and the £6k for a german or french one is out of my league. So after some deliberation I decided to build one myself. Apologies that its a mix of metric and imperial sizes but I'm sure you'll understand. Pic above is not quite to scale but shows roughly what it will be like (have not drawn roof rack on this yet but it will only add 50 or 60mm height) I didn't want to have the vehicle off the road whilst I built this, as I need to use it regularly, so it needed to be 'easy' and not involve taking the van apart. Some of these lifting roofs use the existing LR roof and raise it on a hinged plinth which is fitted between the old roof section and the van sides to allow the lifting/opening. However this means forming a curved piece for both above the windscreen and the shape of the back door, which is complicated and labour intensive (as well as needing to take the roof off.) To get round these 'problems' I thought I'd use the existing roof as a base, working up out of the existing gutter to form the sides and back from 3mm alloy sat in the gutter, with a front piece bolted on, and put a hinged lid on it and then once its fitted, sealed and I'm satisfied it works, I can lift it up, get inside on top with the jigsaw and cut out as much of the 'old' roof as I want, retaining enough around the vehicle to bolt the new one on to. Various other mods across the vehicle width to support the bed platfrom in the roof area will help to retain structural integrity and I reckon the finished item will be stronger than original. A roof rack made of simple alloy flat bar welded to the top on its edge with alloy tube across, will also help to make this even stronger (and I can carry my canoes on it). I searched the alloy extrusion folks catalogues and found two sections that are perfect - an unequal z section which works for the 'base' giving a good sized upstand to prevent weather ingress, and onto which I can fasten the lower part of the fabric sides, and which also has enough 'width' to allow a gas strut to fit in between. Above that, the 'closing' section is L alloy, inverted, which has bags of overlap up into which the fabric can be fastened and allows sufficient space for the loose material to pull inside when the roof is lowered and closed. Pic above shows sectional mockup with unequal Z section at bottom, with inverted L section on top, with 19mm box which will be basis for sheet on the roof. The black line is where the rubber gasket will go to seal the lid when closed. Note sufficient space for fabric to pull inside. To retain the front slope (windscreen angle) and give some wind shedding ability I've had the front section above the windscreen bent by my local alloy fabricators (who will do the difficult welding for me). This is because the stock extrusions are all right angles and wont work with the slope backwards. Above diagram shows section above windscreen to be folded by local alloy fabricators after I've fitted it perfectly (!) to windscreen. And a possible gasket solution (I have several solutions all of which should be fine.) Weight. A conventional roof tent is between 100 and 200 lbs, depending on make and size, and that's without a roof rack to support it. Add a rack which will be at least 50lbs and the overall weight on top is between 150 and 250lbs. My existing roof rack weighs about 50lbs and the roof section I'll remove is probably another 20-30lbs. So I'm 'losing' about 70lbs or so. The new lifting alloy roof will come in about 140lbs max with internal bits and bobs, so deducting the weight of the current roof rack and old roof thats being removed I'm only adding around 70lbs and at the very most 100lbs to the vehicle(and that is including roof rack). That's not anywhere near compromising vehicle stability. Sides and alloy Z and L sections are 3mm and roof is 1.2mm sheet on 19x19x 1.6mm box subframe. Height. Keeping it to less than 2.2m shipping container height. The new roof will end up only about 5 inches higher than the current rooftop (plus 2 inches for roof rack), so somewhere around 7 inches in total, but still less than a normal roof with roof rack (never mind adding a roof tent). There will be no sloping top on the roof above windscreen (like on the original roof) as it will be flat all the way through, so it looks a bit 'top-hatty' but I can live with that to have room for my feet when lying in bed! Speaking of which: the length from windscreen top to back door is 9 feet. Deduct a bed length of 6' 6'' (fitted in two sections) and that leaves a 2' 6'' gap at rear end which gives anything up to 10 feet of standing head room with the roof up and allows me to climb up and get onto the bed, and I'm fitting a small sink on the passenger side and a cooker on the driver side. The bed base in the roof area will be in two sections with the front piece bolted firmly in place to the sides and braced to be a structural member, and the second section towards the rear will be lift-up and remove and during the day will 'nest' on top of the front section, and can be pulled to the rear and popped in place for sleeping. That two part method allows a good amount of standing room for about 6 feet from the back door when the bed base is 'nested' and will make moving about inside easier. Ladder access to bed will either be rungs built into kitchen sink base unit and cooker base unit opposite (so two bed access points) OR a small alloy ladder fixed externally for roof access which can be unclipped from the outside and pulled inside at night and used to climb up on either side as required. Anyway some rough plans should accompany this, as well as pics. Plans not to scale, just for guidance. Although the extrusion code numbers are there in case you want to have a go. 3mm might seem overkill but when I added up the weight of using thinner stuff, but needing a stronger subframe to support it, and then the complexity of fabricating that, well.... 3mm sheet was an easy winner, cheaper and lighter. I'll try and keep photos coming so you can see it evolve. I should be in the welders in the next few weeks all things going to plan to have it all stitched together. Above diagram shows section of roof with extrusion ID codes and dimensions and a rough idea of construction method (not to scale). Above diagram shows gas strut fitting and fabric sides. Ply template for windscreen cut to fit then dimensions and shape transferred to ally. Ready to cut. Once its cut with jigsaw the local ally fabricator boys fold the front for me..........(with their years of experience)........... ......and do a lovely accurate job - and that's the front almost ready. The front gives the dimensions from which I can work backwards and establish all the other dimensions. Did it this way to allow leeway in the folding process, then use the final folded dimensions of the front as the 'gospel'. Working from back forwards makes getting front dimensions super-critical and more stressful for folders than necessary. Using the gutter as a working surface gives a 'fixed point' from which everything can be established when combined with the accurate front fold. Sides cut, offered up, and 'bodged' to get the right angles and length. Lots of wooden wedges and a shedload of swearing. Doing this on your own is not recommended. 3m long wobbly alloy is a pig to control. Especially if its windy! And you have one on each side! Back cut and fitted too. Sides then able to be cut to length. Lots of length allowed in case of errors. Rear aligned and finally cut, wooden wedges to hold it all in place. Everything level and perfectly aligned and ready for fitting the unequal Z section to the top of these pieces (left and right side and rear.) front has no Z section because it's folded. Above all is aligned and wedged, measured, and checked by eye for level all round. Unequal Z fitted and cut. Bit rough but within the tolerances of the welding. Front detail above windscreen ready for pop riveting the z section permanently to the vertical sides/rear. Small bolts to hold in place temporarily whilst I cut the 45 deg mitre at rear, and the effing awful multi-angle mitre at the front which has both a 90 degree angle and the 'whatever the hell the front slope is' angle. Front angle cut is a nightmare. All long cuts were done with a jigsaw, short right-angle mitres with a chop saw, and the multi-angle ones done with a jigsaw, hacksaw, oscillating tool and my teeth. I've just finished pop-riveting the Z section to sides and sealed the joint with Tiger Seal, so its ready for welding. Once thats done I can get the width for the lifting top and get that cut.

21 year old girl? Hmmph. With a 90 I'd say you're a woman now, best get used to it! Enjoy!

Thanks Si. That'll be my option too I think. The Poliall with VAT and delivery is er um er extortionate so I think your suggestion is a goer. I've located half-round neoprene gasket so I reckon a few pieces of that engineered in will do a good job of stopping water ingress.

`And.........every time you weld your Land Rover you fuse a wee bit of your soul into it too. (That was tonight's Rabbie Burns poetry moment, brought to you by them lot in the north) :-)

Thanks - I'd come across the hurricane ones but have seen conflicting reports on their waterproofness. Also they look like they can wear quite easily given the structure shape.

Contemplating options for a continuous hinge on my current 'ploy' (more info to follow). Need a weatherproof 1.8m hinge and can either use ordinary stainless steel and fit some neoprene seals to probably stop water ingress or go the whole hog for some of the Poliall type hinge with the PU insert which is weatherproof along its length. Like this (down to the page middle, and from 14391 onwards.) Of course unlike a 'mechanical' hinge with a hinge pin this is a flexible PU hinge like on a tupperware box. What I'm curious about is their robustness. It's expensive stuff but if it works and will last it might be worth it. If it's not that longlived then stainless and a gasket at 50% of the cost might be a better bet. Anyone got any experience? Or know what the typical lifespan is, or how many 'folds' it can do before going croak? (My use is across the vehicle front, facing oncoming weather as you drive - so pretty 'exposed'.)

Sale of Goods Act - send it back, full refund AND any postage returned thanks. If you have to fanny about to fit it and do some bodges, and another bit fails and you need it replaced under warranty they'll say sorry you messed around with it. Also - if you want another section to fit it you may need to buy ****part again.

Maybe just buy the press, do the job (properly and taking your time) then sell the press s/h for 75% of its purchase price, or even if you only get 50% you're still ahead of the game compared to going to a garage, or replacing a vice. I got one of these.

Great thanks. Not one I'd seen, and I've got a slight weep just started from the transfer box so that might be a cause.