rick
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Posts posted by rick
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<snip>
Aussie cricket lovers would find it more palatable to be beaten by the USA.
Bill.
ROTFLMAO
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Here's a pic.
Now that is neat. B)
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Thanks for the info Rick. I am not using a Rover gearbox it is a NV4500, takes about 4L of oil. I have also lagged my exhaust to the B post. It does have 2 pto ports on it and I have thought about the ribbed coolers that replace these but as the gearbox is well within its design parameters it is not at the top of my priority list. The Lt230 was hot but I could keep my hand on it unlike a rad which is burn hot, mind this was after a gentle run and not a WOT hillclimb . Rocky Mountain said the ribbed sump ran 10C cooler than a normal sump. I may not need to go the cooler route after I monitor the oil temps.
Gaza
NV4500 has a similar problem shedding heat being an iron case. What oil are you running ?
The OE oil is US Castrol Syntorq LT, which I think is Euro Castrol Syntrans. A lot of tyhe US boards claim that US Syntorq is Euro TAF-X, but that doesn't ring true to me as TAF-X is a 75w-90, and both Syntorq and Syntrans are 75w-85's, with very similar specs.
Apparently Torco RTF also works well, and runs similar temps to the OE fluid, unlike some other syns like Redline, and I've been impressed with it in an R380, even though it's a 75w-90. (albeit a light one @ 14.3cSt @ 100*C)
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If you can keep your hand on it it isn't hot !
Rule of thumb is that if you can hold you hand on it just, it's around 45*, if you can't touch it, it's hotter
I stupidly touched my Sals one summers day after belting up the Putty Road here (an axle seal had started to weep and so I was trying to blow the breather line out)
I nearly left skin behind.......
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I've just gone from that size in BFG's to Maxxis 762 Big Horns, and the Maxxis measured up at ;
2650mm circumference @ 30psi = 844mm/33.23" OD on a 6.5" rim.
Basically the same OD as a BFG. My flogged BFG's (less than 3mm tread) measured 2595mm. Both start with aprox. 15mm of tread depth. Both tyre companies claim 33.3" OD's for this size.
Section width (bag to bag) is bigger on the Maxxis at 10.3" vs a neat 10" on the BFGs.
Total tread width on the Maxxis is approx 210mm, a touch wider than the corresponding BFG.
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SFS make 200Tdi coolant hose kits. (and 300Tdi and TD5 ones too)
http://www.siliconhose.com/content.asp?inc...catalog=CKIT111
What colour do you want ?
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The main reason the R380's use an external oil cooler in hot climates is because the iron case can't dissipate the heat fast enough (and the oil volume is limited) and there is a stinking hot exhaust running alongside it. (part of the reason I lagged mine to the t/case)
The LT230, being all aluminium can at least shed heat a touch quicker.
Some of us here use either a 75W-110 or 80W-140 gear lube anyway, so it copes with high heat/load/torque better.
Monitor the temp, you want to keep it well under 100*C. IIRC, the oil t/stat in an R380 starts to open at around 87*C.
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I suspect this topic has been done to death before so I'm quite happy if someone just refers me to the definitive statement somewhere.
My question is whether there is a mainstream off-the-shelf engine oil which is 100 per cent compliant with LR's requirement of WSS-M2C913-B and an alternative to buying the oil from your local friendly LR main dealer's Parts Department. I'm just guessing it's retailed there at a premium price but haven't asked yet in fact.
My research to date suggests this is a Ford spec and two compliant alternatives I've found are:
- Castrol Magnatec SAE 5W-30, and
- Morris Lubricants Multivis 5W/30 Semi Synthetic (MSS)
and there must be others.
However - is there anything magic about the LR stuff or indeed Ford branded stuff.
I'm in the UK and not in some extreme climate.
Thanks for your assistance.
Nothing magical about it, and I believe it's actually an out of date spec, meeting ACEA A1-98 and B1-98 with a couple of additional Ford specs. It was first listed about six or seven years ago, and oils have moved on significantly since then.
Just look on the bottles, you'll probably find most nearly all the majors cover that Ford spec, and I believe the Ford stuff is bottled by Texaco (Havolene Energy 5W-30).
Bloke in this thread from SA http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbth...rue#Post1145999 was having the same issues with finding that spec for his 1600 TDCi Focus.
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Will, you can't go too big on a turbo engined car, you just get to the point of diminishing returns.
NA is a totally different kettle of fish.
I forgot about the air box and supply in the above post.
I ditched the OE intake hose and replaced it with a 85mm ID hose, and lopped the end off the Safari snorkel (it necks down to a 2"ID, 2,3/8"OD spigot on the inside of the guard) to where it is a 3"OD spigot, and use a Donaldson filter element that flows much better than the OE filter with better filtration. (we've tested them
) No way will I ever use a K&N on a 4WD. Race use only in my book No noticeable improvement on an otherwise stock engine, but I'm sure it didn't hurt when the fuel and exhaust were modded.
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In the UK, maybe. Here a genuine assembly costs R1600 and an SKF 6203 bearing is R24. I'll give you one guess as to what we do
Done that a few times while the nylon guide that the spring tensioner runs in is OK, but when that wears too, the whole assembly needs replacing.
The Dayco aftermarket tensioner assy. pt. # is APV 1004 and is generally much cheaper than the identical OE ERR4708
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White smoke on conventional diesel is not normal, it's a sign of incomplete combustion, (crook injectors, not enough compression [heat in combustion chamber], dodgy fuel) but on WVO ?????
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<snip>
I'm still thinking of the oil exchanger pipes being the problem. I might get the battery box finished this week. Then I can try to see what's happening.
mike
Mike, are these the original, Dunlop made crimped fittings ?
If so, they are notorious for leaking.
Most of us out here rip them out, cut off the original ends on the hard pipe and braze on standard type hydraulic hose ends and fit new hoses from Pirtek or Enzed.
Problem solved.
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yep, big bore exhaust improves spool up significantly, and i found that even with stock fuelling (can't remember the tyre diamter, too long ago) the useable rev range in third extended from 80km/h maximum speed (it just stopped revving) to 100km/h before the engine wouldn't rev any further. (130 exhaust)
The 3"exhaust also dropped EGT's significantly, by well over 25*C on my tests hills with stock fuelling.
Also lagged the dump pipe when doing the clutch twelve months ago with Thermotec header wrap down to the t/case after one of the Oz tuning shops had been dyno testing Nissan 3"pipes and found they picked up a 4-6HP by just HPC coating 3'-4'of the dump pipe. They were doing it to reduce heat soak into the cabin.
All we can surmise is that it keeps up the exhaust gas velocity post turbo and helps reduce back pressure.
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So when were S and T plates ?
The UK rego thing has always been a mystery to non residents
Also explains why mine came with OAT coolant, Cold Climate power steering fluid, etc.
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I have a Nov '98 build 300Tdi and it's one of the last 300Tdi VIN's.
It appears Jan '99 are the first build TD5's
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170mm roughly maybe 180
from inside rubber to inside Could be a vibe or two with that with the yokes binding just a touch.....IIRC stock height is around 65-70mm......
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Before you do anything, what are bump stop clearances on the front now ?
i.e. when parked on a level bit of concrete, measure between the rubber bump stop (assuming stock bump rubber and not spaced down) and axle pad. If it's 115mm or under, you probably won't need a DC shaft.
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If you add some Wynns Charge to the grease it helps the bearings..... About a dessert spoon full.
mike
Not in my grease you wont !
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A few more things that I forgot to add.
Viscosity Index Improvers.
These are clever little molecules (polymeric thickeners) that when added to an oil help it resist thinning under increasing temperature. These are basically a form of plastic that is added in a powdered form at high temperature (IIRC over 200*F) and take several days to become solvent.
Only the big blenders use this form, (Mobil, Texaco, etc) the small boutique blenders buy it already in solution for easy blending.
VII's are needed to make our mineral oil based multi-grade oils, otherwise everyone would still be using straight grade oils.
Say our blender wants to make an SAE 10W-40, he can select a lighter base weight oil that corresponds to a 10W on the cranking pressure scale, add some VII of the correct type and voila, he has a multi-grade !
The downside with VII's is that;
1. they take up space in the oil that could be used for something else, eg. good old oil or another important additive.
2. They tend to shear under pressure and load. What this means is that your original 12.5 cSt @ 100*C 10W-40 can soon become a 10 cSt @ 100*C 10W-30 without much effort. Today's VII's are a hell of a lot more stable than yesteryears, but they still do this.
VII's in gear oils are even worse off as the environment in terms of shear is much harsher.
The only VII's that I'm aware of that don't shear are the ones that Castrol use in some of their premium synthetic products formulated in Germany. The technology was absolutely cutting edge only a couple of years ago, and I remember the amazement of some of the Yanks when they reverse engineered a 0W-30 with gas spectography. Having said that, I'm sure the other big blenders have some tricks up there sleeves as a number of premium oils from all the big boys have a wide viscosity spread and are extremely shear stable.
Synthetic oils and VII's.
Mostly, they are in much smaller quantities or not at all. AFAIK, most of Redline, Motul and number of Mobil's products don't use any as the synthetic bases are so stable across such a wide temperature band. Others, such as the above mentioned Castrol ones use small amounts and are really base oils anyway, and others used in oils like Mobil 1 0W-40 do use VII's and shear back to 0W-30 under use, but VII's need to be used in these wide viscosity oils to get the required viscosity spread. This could be where M1 0W-40 gets a bit of bad reputation when used in older, higher clearance engines.
Simply put, if you want an oil that doesn't shear in use, use one with as narrow viscosity spread as possible, however some of the wide spread oils (Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 being a case in point) are some off the most stable oils on the market, showing no viscosity variations over distances exceeding 100,000km on one oil change.
Volatility.
All oils are volatile, regardless of base type. This means that they will tend to evaporate under heat and load. The volatility is expressed as a NOACK % on the spec sheets. Obviously lower is better, with the best ones hovering in the region 6-8%. Mineral based lubes are often in the low to mid teens, even the good ones.
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and if anyone is interested, there is some excellent tech stuff here on these two pages http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbth...d=53&page=1, as well as the rest of that board, if you can sort the wheat from the chaff.
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G'day fella's,
No worries Nige, we all have days like that..
( It was something to do with me have a cr*p day so far - and then getting Sikaflex 299 in my ear rofl.gif - don't ask sad.gif )must resist asking, must resist asking
No Ian, not an oil engineer (Tribologist is what they go by
), just an end use like everyone here who has developed an unhealthy obsession with the slippery stuff dating back to my racing days dyno testing various oils.I talk to the blokes that actually do the blending, as well as the analysts that test the used product and some very savvy end users in the trucking industry here who work hand in hand with the big oil companies.
What you are describing with the Rover V8 is a viscosity and more importantly additive issue regarding your skew gears and just as importantly, lifters and cam. BTW, foaming is usually a lack of silicon compounds in the oil. Racing oils have higher levels of these as scavenge stages in dry sump pumps can make a milk shake out of an oil in short order.
Regardless of your base oil, if the additive package doesn't have enough extreme pressure compounds, (and generally this is zinc dithiphosphate, ZDDP, as it is extremely effective, both in performance and cost for the blender) you will have wear issues in high load areas of the engine.
Unfortunately the levels of ZDDP have been steadily dropping in the last decade to satisfy environmental concerns, it tends to poison the catalytic converter in high levels in the oil. As a consequence, some oils that used to protect OK in the older style engines, don't anymore, although they work fine in OHC and roller lifter OHV engines.
Boron esters are probably even more effective than ZDDP, but they are much more expensive and so are in limited oils. (usually high end synthetic diesel oils like Delvac 1, my current favourite oil)
One issue I think worth mentioning is that we started having lifter/cam problems on Formula Ford engines about twelve years ago and everyone was blaming the oils we were all using. One engine builder was having cam and bore wear issues, so he made all his customers use the then Castrol GP 50 25W-50 ! (thankyou, you just knocked four more HP off our opposition
) The problem was that the lifters coming through were sub standard. The market had started to shrink, QC dropped and the radius on the lifter face wasn't always correct. (nor was the taper on the cam lobe
)We took to individually inspecting each one and would run them in on a special cam rig we made (old engine block hooked up to an electric motor ) just to ensure they bedded in to the cam properly. We could then run the engine in without having to run it for half an hour at 1500-2000RPM bedding in the cam first.
I've talked to a few Chev/Ford V8 people in the last few years and they also believe that a lot of the current flat tappet cam problems that are being laid at the bottle of engine oil are actually lifter radius problems.
My reason for suggesting the HDEO mixed fleet oil is that they still use very high levels of EP and anti-wear additives for the big diesels, in fact the whole additive package is much more sophisticated and robust than the average petrol engine oil, including the premium ones.
You shouldn't have problems with detergents displacing chunks of sludge, they generally soften it slowly as there is only so much a blender can fit in one litre of oil, and while the detergents will remove garbage, they also have dispersant additives that keep it in suspension and wont let it clump. The additives used aren't like the horrible solvent flushes that line the walls of the local spare parts shop.
The only downside with diesel oils in race motors is that the high metallic ash additives used in the detergent/AW/dispersant package may cause detonation problems over time as they will build up in the chamber. this is the reason that Redline's pure race oils don't have any added detergents, although the base polyolester oil's natural detegency is high, so they aren't totally devoid of detergnecy.
Some engine oils like the UK spec VR1, (It's a 10w-40 claimed syn here
) and Oz Castrol Edge Sport 25w-50 have elevated ZDDP levels and are marketed squarely at high performance V8's, as is the latest version of Mobil 1 15w-50 @ 1200ppmZDDP.FWIW, I used M1 5w-50 for years in a pretty warm 351 Cleveland successfully, and a very famous engine builder here, Pat Purcell used to use M1 5w-50 almost exclusively in all the race boat and NASCAR Chev's (flat tappet cam) he used to build. (this was over ten years ago) Pat's then business partner Tristan used to do my heads, (and a couple of the top V8 teams here)
Regarding viscosities, if an oil is designated 5w-50 or 20w50, at operating temperature (rated @ 100*C) they are both behaving as an SAE 50 oil, regardless of base oil chemistry. Yes, you can have thick and thin 50's, but only within the SAE 50 range !
I was trying to dig up an SAE viscosity chart, but this this is easier, there's one on JB's site here near the bottom of the page. http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/MTF.htm
Also remember that a synthetic oil, regardless of synthetic type, will have a higher viscosity index than any predominantly mineral oil. What this means is that the hotter the oil gets, the less it will thin out. In other words, if two oils are an identical viscosity @ 100*C, the mineral based oil will get thinner than the syn once the temp starts to climb past 100*.
Now, lets look at synthetic vs mineral based oils.
First up, most oils these days are blends of one kind or another. There is so much cross blending going on that it's almost impossible to call them one or the other !
Secondly, there are that many types of 'synthetics' it's almost impossible to define what one is. In fact it's probably easier to define what isn't.
Oils are broken up into 'Groups' literally Groups I-V
I did have a list of where the VI cut offs were the for the mineral oil groups, but I can't find it ATM.
Group I are the most basic refined mineral oils. They generally have a low viscosity index (the rate at which an oil thins as temperature increases) and higher levels of impurities like sulphur than higher oils. I don't think anyone uses Group I oils as a base for a fully formulated engine oil, at least in the developed world.
I believe they are used for additive solvency in higher level oils.
Group II are more refined mineral oils and are usually the basis of most engine oils today.
Group II+ is basically a sub group of Group II oils. they are obviously more refined than 'normal' Group II. Chevron/Texaco/Caltex use these extensively.
Group III are severely hydrocracked (Chevron method) or hydro treated (Shell XHVI ) mineral oils. These oils are increasingly being referred to as 'synthetic', although are definitely mineral oil in origin. European manufacturers can refer to them as 'Technosynthese' (Motul) 'Molecularly Converted' (Fuchs) or 'Synthetic' (Shell and Castrol)
They offer lower pour points than Group II and II+ oils and have better oxidation resistance, often coming close to PAO's in performance. They have a higher viscosity index than lower oils.
Group IV oils are PAO's (polyAlfaoleofins)
These are the predominate base oils in oils such as Mobil 1, most of Amsoil's range, Castrol Edge 0W-40, 10W-60, etc.
PAO's are generally derived form ethylene gas, and so while having an organic carbon origin, are genuinely synthetic in nature. PAO's have a lower pour point and higher oxidation level than Group III oils, a high viscosity index, but generally not as good a solvency. Other oil Groups are added to enhance their lubricity and solvency.
Group V covers all other oils such as esters, (di-esters, tri-esters, polyolesters, etc, think here of Silkolene, Fuchs, Neo, Redline, Motul, etc.), PolyAlkylGlycols (PAGS), Alkylated Napthalenes (the other synthetic used in most Mobil 1 engine oils) and others.
Esters are an exceptional group of oils, usually having the highest levels of detergency, lubricity, highest viscosity index and the most fluid at temperature extremes. Some can also be highly corrosive in the presence of moisture, although all used in motor and gear oils are highly stable and/or buffered.
They are also bloody expensive. They can be derived from many different sources, and are usually a naturally occurring fat that is esterised. (acid/alcohol/heat) Crop oils, animal fats, etc are used to create these oils.
Most all ester based oils are just that, usually mixed with PAO's, AN's and the other groups to make a full formulated oil. They are also polar in nature, meaning they tend to have an affinity for other polar materials like metal. This is where Castrol derived its marketing for Magnatec. I have no idea how much ester is actually present in Magnatec.
Some esters have been derived from PAO's, and Castrol has cleverly used these to mimic viscosity index improver's in an number of their oils without the VII's downsides. Versions of their 0W-30 engine oils, as well as some of their synthetic gear oils use this chemistry.
PAGs are generally specialised industrial lubricants these days, although there are PAG gear oils around too. PAGS aren't compatible with any other group of oil to my knowledge.
AN's are generally made by Mobil and they replace esters in a lot of their formulations (although it is believed a high % of esters are still used in Delvac 1 and relatives)
(disclaimer. No references are cited as all this carp was off the top of my head, so E&OE)
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id try here http://www.landrover.ee/est/varia/downloads/cars.htm also google land rover RAVE, all usefull stuff there.
Also just a little pointer from experience make sure you get GL4 spec EP90 or EP80w/90 for the transfer box, someone please correct me if im wrong, but i have heard it has brass components in there. They recommend GL4 spec in the workshop manual either way.
Good Luck!!
Actually the book says GL4 or 5, and FWIW the latest LT230's come from the factory with a semi-synthetic 75W-90 GL5. Just from a protection point of view, and with the dreaded spline wear problem in mind, I'd stick with a good 75/80w-90 GL5 lube.
Most better GL5's these days have the sulphur EP component 'buffered' to reduce copper discolouration. if in doubt, ask for a spec sheet and it should have the copper corrosion spec on there, and if '1B' it will be fine with yellow metals.
The basic difference between the two specs is that GL4's have about 1/3 the level of EP additives of a GL5.
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and what is better for 300Tdi engine-? I heard theat Castrol is the best choose..
an 5/10/15W-40 diesel or mixed fleet oil with the best specs that you can afford.
Any reputable name brand is good, and I would aim for at least an API CH-4 or better (CI-4, CI-4+ are current, not counting the latest low ash CJ-4 for low emissions US diesels) or at least an ACEA A3/B3 or A3/B4 for petrol/diesel specs, or E4 diesel (E6 and E7 are the latest specs relating to low emission Euro heavy duty diesels)
If very cold winters are experienced, (eg. below -10*C start up) consider a 10 or 5w-40, and I would take a 15w-40 pretty easy at -10 when starting.
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So, anyone know why LR would specify the wrong oil?
Chris
they probably don't, they would go off the manufacturers recommended oil viscosity.
from inside rubber to inside
Difflock Evo synthetic gear oils - worth the extra?
in Defender Forum (1983 - 2016)
Posted
Nope, MTF94 is a 75w-80 MTF, which is equivalent in viscosity range to a 10W-30 engine oil.
There are a stack of MTF's suitable for an R380, http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/MTF.htm although they may have slightly different synchro characteristics and R380's can be a bit idiosyncratic in that what one gearbox likes another may not. there are a few more available than JB's list too, with Penrite now having a synthetic MTF that they claim meets MTF94 specs.
In higher ambients my first choice is generally Castrol Syntrans, and most I've put onto it prefer it over almost any other lube.