Snagger Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Hi folks. I have been reading the DVLA guide, all 63 pages, to try to determine what the requirements and consequences would be if I do a transmission mod on my 109. I have 9 points on the "Radically altered" scheme, so it currently retains the original 1972 VIN, reg and tax exemption. If I replace the transmission with a different type, it drops to 7 points; not enough. My interpretation of these confusing rules it that it would then be regarded as an "Amateur Built Vehicle", M1 class, needing a Basic IVA. It reads to me that the original VIN would be retained, but the registration would change to a Q plate. Does that sound right? Next is the road tax rate. Obviously, retaining "historic status" would be preferable, but I think it'd be lost. Would the tax rate be based on the pre-2001 engine sized rule or the post March 2017 CO2 emissions bands rules (which would be very punitive with a Tdi)? I could probably live with the former, but the latter has bands up to 2000GBP per annum! Does anyone really understand these regs? I'd think some of you have been through the mill in the last few years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 fit an lt77 box to a series transferbox and call it the orignal transmission? Ed parrot mad an almost invisable conversion (with the lt 230 admittedly). Can you claim back points elsewhere? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 Thanks, Daan. The transmission would be a 200Tdi Discovery's ZF22-4HP and a RRC Borg Warner, engine is a 200Tdi (Disco with Def manifolds). Axles are coiler on leaf springs, steering is Defender/P38 hybrid. I could swap the steering back in theory, but the PAS is more beneficial than the uprated transmission, and the axles give such improved turning circle and braking that I'd never go back to Series axles on this vehicle. So, the only points I can claim are the new but unaltered chassis and the leaf springs (plus current transmission). I don't want to cheat, and it's not worth the risk anyway - having the vehicle crushed, a very heavy fine and a conviction for fraud and tax evasion are not worth thinking about! Edit: I could hypothetically fit a highly tuned 2.25 petrol to reclaim the one point to meet the minimum score of 8 for retaining the VIN and registration, but I can't see it being pokey enough to drive remotely well. I really need to clarify the Amateur Build and relevant tax band rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I think you would come under radically altered not amateur built. Can't remember if you need an IVA. Emissions are based on engine age and as far as I know tax is also based on engine age. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Fit santana axles. Series axles with coiler width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 You canget good power and torque out of a 2.25 petrol. You can also make it bigger without anyone knowing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 That's what I was thinking, David. ACR can turn the 5mb versions into 2.8l, and heavily tune them. Expensive, but so are some of those later emissions based road tax bands, especially in the long term.As I understand it, the rules allow a like for like engine swap, so a period replacement of the same type is allowed and retains the single point towards the registration, and it doesn't say anything about modified parts other than for the chassis or shell, suggesting a bored and tuned 2.25 petrol would regain my one point lost from changing to diesel. It would seem to be within the letter of the law, if outside the spirit of the law, if that interpretation is correct. Daan, I don't see the benefit in installing Santana axles as the axles' points would still be lost, and the 110 Salisbury rear axle is closer to original spec than the Santana unit. Mike, it's very confusing which scheme it'd fall under, but you are probably right. I got mixed up because the radically altered rules start going on about the 8-points rule and keeping the original registration, but further down has a section I didn't see about new registrations for not scoring 8 points. It doesn't look too onerous. It would need an IVA, but that is unlikely (though not automatically exclusive of) and inspection or test - they appear to decide on whether it needs inspection on a case by case basis. What I can't fin is something definitive about the tax banding date basis. It says in the registration guide that a radically altered vehicle needs to follow the procedure for registering a new vehicle ( https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles ), and the tax section here https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables talks about three categories based on date of registration, but is unclear whether that is first ever registration or the new registration. It doesn't mention the date of registration of engine donor, though that would seem a reasonable practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 (edited) My tomcat was built as a radically altered and retained the donor registration. At the time it went for a VIC (no longer exists) which was to check points if it passed you kept the registration. If it failed it was off to SVA then it would be registered based on donor. If you used one donor it would be age related, if you used several it would be Q. Both were taxed on the old system. Unless the donor was post 2001 but I'm not sure what happened then. However this was 10 years ago. Mike Just had a look if the vehicle was constructed after 2001 then tax is based on engine emissions. If engine emission data is not available then it will be taxed on engine size (old system). So I doubt you will keep tax exempt but you will only be taxed on the old system. I also think you will have an IVA like a grey import where they only check the identity and the modifications. Edited September 2, 2017 by miketomcat More info found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 That sounds likely. It seems easy enough bureaucratically, and is probably worth doing if the tax is based on the engine size, pre 2001, but not if its based on emissions. The gearing will be similar to keeping the original transmission, but noise and robustness would be greatly improved. But you can do a lot of repairs for two grand a year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 I'm expecting the ibex to be on the old system of tax as it has a 200tdi even though it will be a Q plate registered hopefully this or next year. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 Fingers crossed for you, but it seems logical. Please let me know what happens when you do register it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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