TD5Spain Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 thinking more about it just now, i don't think it can be a fuel delivery problem as you say its smoking badly and the smoke is black, so surely its getting enough fuel but not enough air? assuming that the turbo is OK and the intercooler pipes are all fitted correctly and not split/cracked try looking at the air intake. i am aware of some td5s that were loosing power around 3750rpm and it was due to a split in the filter to turbo intake pipe. This split is closed most of the time and only opens up as the engine rocks over on the mounts at the higher rpm. try getting someone to rev the engine whilst you look under the bonnet (prob best stationary!) have you tried it with a new air filter or without a filter in?Sorry i know you but it down to misfire at the start, just thinking through the probs. editied to add i think there must be another problem which is giving you the white smoke or something is seriously wrong. Okay I am back looking at the problems but to cl;arify the white smoke is only when started up then it clears to black smoke when the accel is pressed, the thing is it doesn't smoke constantly,if i depress the accel slowly it appears ok but when I floor it or rev quickley then the smkoe appears. The engine is still juddering/ lacking power/ misfiring however I can describe it when under load......... This is really becoming problematic so anyway todays tasks are: Check fuel regulator...... Drop tank and remove the pump and see what I have there! Failing this I have run out of ideas and will have to succomb to the useless LR garages here and let them loose on it! I will update later today re the results and what else I have done Thanks Again Cheers TD5Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 I GIVE UP I HAVE STOPPED SHORT OF DROPPING THE TANK AND CHECKING THE PUMP SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED NEEDS SOME ATTENTION!!!! SO I HOPE THIS IS THE CAUSE WHEN IT GOES TO LANDROVER TOMORROW OR TUESDAY WHENEVER THEY CAN FIT ME IN I WILL OF COURSE UPDATE YOU ALL WHEN I GET THE NEWS IF THE BANK ACCOUNT STRETCHES THAT FAR FINGERS CROSSED BY ALL PLEASE THANKS AGAIN Cheers TD5Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 sorry to hear all is not going to plan (still) you checked all the pipework then, with it under load as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLineMike Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Okay I am back looking at the problems but to cl;arify the white smoke is only when started up then it clears to black smoke when the accel is pressed, the thing is it doesn't smoke constantly,if i depress the accel slowly it appears ok but when I floor it or rev quickley then the smkoe appears.The engine is still juddering/ lacking power/ misfiring however I can describe it when under load......... This is really becoming problematic so anyway todays tasks are: Check fuel regulator...... Drop tank and remove the pump and see what I have there! Failing this I have run out of ideas and will have to succomb to the useless LR garages here and let them loose on it! I will update later today re the results and what else I have done Thanks Again Cheers TD5Spain Cant see anywhere if its a disco or a defender....Ill take a guess that its a disco in which case there is a hatch in the rear floor to remove the fuel pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 sorry to hear all is not going to plan (still) you checked all the pipework then, with it under load as well? Yes I did and they seem fine thanks, funny thing is when sitting still it willl rev full on! I have really run out of time and patience. I have a niggling thought that the Throttle Potentiometer is problematic even though I have my mates on at the moment. It just doesn't make sense....... When I gently rev even on load it reacts differently it is as if it is accelerator led! So this I think points to the TP or the high pressure system of the pump. But as I say no more time or energy to spend on it. Thanks again and I will keep you informed. Cheers TD5Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 FIXED YET? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 FIXED YET? I wish! They have now had the Landy for over 2 days and they are still going ummm arrrr. It is the same in spanish! Tee Hee.... Basically they have been through and "apparently" checked allthe items I had already done! and now they say they are going to recheck it on the computer, but there are no faults being thrown out? They the ECU is ok....Thank goodness and that the wiring harnesses appear okay,but they are baffled... When I cam to start it up on MOnday to take to the garage it was a real bitch to get going, it started first time but then proceeded to cough and splutter and spew out loads of "white" smoke, once it cleared it was back to the same black smoke and power problems. I thought this must be the head gasket....... but they say they didn't think so as there is no water in the oil, fumes in the coolant?????, condensation or gunbe in the oil filler cap, or the other normal pointers to a head gone. They have said it may be the injectors but are doing a thorough test... I am remortgaging to pay the bill!!! Some good news though the re[placement engine was actually fitted in march 2005 so they have said any warranty work will be covered.... That was a surprise! I will keep you informed when I hear later today...I hope Cheers TD5Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwyn lewis Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 I see you are having problems ive had similar problems whith a couple of td5 defenders have you checked the turbo waste gate incase it is seized and over preasurising at high rpm or eaven under preasure get a turbo boost gauge on it and see what it is doing the one i had was seized we just freed it off and it was ok its worth checking gwyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 I see you are having problemsive had similar problems whith a couple of td5 defenders have you checked the turbo waste gate incase it is seized and over preasurising at high rpm or eaven under preasure get a turbo boost gauge on it and see what it is doing the one i had was seized we just freed it off and it was ok its worth checking gwyn Diolch yn fawr Gwyn (thankyou in Welsh) I will speak with the garage tomorrow morning as no news today!!!! iechyd da ( "Cheers" ) in welsh! Said yakidarin english! TD5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 FIXED YET? Okay here is the wisdom from Land Rover They have carried out a thorough diagnostic systems check etc..... and they have come up with the following:- Turbo Compressor is not working correctly............New one 1600€ (approx £1200) plus VAT 16% 3 x injectors are blocked or not working properly...New one 400€ EACH 1200€ (approx £800) plus VAT 16% Labour etc......... between 8 and 12 hours?????? @ 50€ say 10 = 500€ (approx £330) plus VAT 16% So that is 3300€ OVER £2300!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what none of this is warranty work even though the engine is under warranty still? Any ideas anyone? They say the injectors are special tools and set up and NOT DIY even by a non LR Mechanic? I am going to p[rice the parts up in the UK any suggestions please? What about the Turbo Compressor is this easily changeable? and is it not servicable? Cheers TD5Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 im sure ive seen somewhere that Td5 injectors have to be setup with the ECU, just plugging them in wont make them work correctly. no idea why though. as for the turbo, simple in theory to change but i bet the nuts/studs are totally seized from the heat making it a total pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 im sure ive seen somewhere that Td5 injectors have to be setup with the ECU, just plugging them in wont make them work correctly. no idea why though.as for the turbo, simple in theory to change but i bet the nuts/studs are totally seized from the heat making it a total pig. Thanks Andy I have just found out this info also and they say the reason is that each injector is coded with its measured resistance and this code has to be entered into the computer (ECU) for them to work properly...!!! Apparently if this hasn't been done and they are "new" to the engine this could be part of the problem as to why the ECU is throwing up fault codes on the injectors although I think unlikell in my case as they were replaced at the time of the new engine. Cheers TD5Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Any damage to the turbo compressor will be visible - I'd ask to see it if I was in your position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Thanks AndyI have just found out this info also and they say the reason is that each injector is coded with its measured resistance and this code has to be entered into the computer (ECU) for them to work properly...!!! Apparently if this hasn't been done and they are "new" to the engine this could be part of the problem as to why the ECU is throwing up fault codes on the injectors although I think unlikell in my case as they were replaced at the time of the new engine. Cheers TD5Spain If you have access to the diagnostic software, like rovacomlite or similar, it's a matter of minutes to program the codes for the injectors. BUT.... you need the software! bit of a PITA if you're in Spain and not here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 My Disco has a similar fault but its due to the oil in the wiring harnes.. We hope I replaced the fuel pump and filter first. white smoke when misfiring and dies at 2500-3000 revs to a complete stop.. I was doing 90mph in the outside lane of the M40 when it happend first. Stunning have had it on the Rovacom (I think thats what he uses) the EGR Valve is the only fault shown but oil is dripping out of plugs, sensors and the ecu has been draining for a day or so and oil still dripping The remaining parts should arrive today but we will not know if the ECU is fried till then but the diagnostic says it ok. the oil is traveling along between the copper and its plastic sleave so can't be seen from outside the loom. We have replaced the engine fueling loom. I have no idea what its cost so far hopfully Stunning and Bearmach will look after me they normaly do. I don't know if this is similar or any help Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 Thanks Jules Sorry to hear you have a similar issue. It has been a very expensive nightmare so far, and I have picked it up again from the LR Garage and "driven" it home to try and get the aprts from elsewhere and try and find mechanic qualified to repair it! it cost me 250€ just fro the diagnostic testing.....! I willkeep you all in touch and updated. Many Thanks all Cheers TD5Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 I had to leave it in the hands of Landrover in the end no other option here...... If anyone is still interested the garage still have my Defender which now makes it over 2 weeks!!!!!!!!!!! They say they have "repaired" the turbo, sounds worrying....... and they have now replaced 3x injectors ( incl wiring loom), flushed out the tank and supply and return lines, and "tested" the pump, but guess what thye say it is still smoking and similar problems as before. The head has been pressure tested and every sensor tested cleaned and or replaced, etc etc....... There are apparently some "experts" coming across from Landrover? although I bet not specifically for my landy eh! I have an appointment at the garage next wedensday when they are going to discuss what to do! This doesn't sound good does it? Keep your fingers crossed for me Regards to all TD5Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Where abouts in Spain are you? my family have a place in Tarifa, so i'm quite often there (the very south of Spain). you ever near there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 Where abouts in Spain are you? my family have a place in Tarifa, so i'm quite often there (the very south of Spain).you ever near there? Hi I am inland between Alicante and Valencia so no not down south much. The trouble is I am either torn between Alicante, Benidorm YUCH, or Valencia LR garages as these are the nearest options. I have been recommended a decent garage in Barcelona but that is about 5 hours away! or a 1000€ grua ride (sorry breakdown truck). If it had been runable long distance I would have driven it back to the UK via the ferry I am that disallusioned over here with the sham of LR Concessionaires. Cheers TD5Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 any news yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 any news yet? Can you believe it is now over 3weeks, lost count really. IT has been with the LR dealership and they have yet to sort the problem! They have replaced turbo,injectors and everything elso they "say", but it is still problematic... The latest is they are swapping the ECU over to see if this is the problem, but they are talking over 3,000€ for a replacement is this a normal price do you think £2000!!!!!!!!!!!!! I and they are at a loss I have arranged to speak to them again tomorrow to get an update to be honest I get the feeling they are giving up! I would like to spend soem time with the mechanic but this seems impossible, although only my first TD5 I have had over 20 Land Rovers in various guises. I have sent an email to LR in the UK but they have not responded and I have also tried to call but none has returned my calls. I have an issue with the costs as the engine is under warranty and why should I pay for all the things they have done so far if they have not fixed the problem.... worth a discussion anyway. I will keep you up to date. Thanks for the interest James TD5Spain....... Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 thats not good, sorry to hear its less than ideal, hoep they do sort it, sounds like you will have a battle ref the fixing costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I'd definately get on the phone to UK customer services (again). give them a right royal hollering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porny Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Apart from the possible faults that have been mentioned.... I know it's at the LR Dealer.... But what part number is your ECU?? Is it a late spec 'NNN' type - which should be fitted if your engine is a 2004 spec.... or a 'MSB' type which would have been fitted when your 90 was built?? There are numerous differences between the two engines, and ECU's! (EU2 spec, and EU3) - which can cause problems. Has the dealer checked the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor?? A common fault is that the CKP is too close to the flywheel or the drive plate... more noticeable when warm. If this is the case, it does bring up some funny faults: Normally.... • High-speed crank sync lost fault But other faults that may be logged are: • Noisy crank signal has been detected. • Injector faults. • Any injector faults may occur due to gaining and losing crankshaft synchronization. The fix is the fitment of a shim. A faulty EGR can also cause problems.... especially if it's stuck part open. Another fault is a loose relays, and or a loose power feed to the main fuse box. Some of the diagnosis does sound a bit random though... If the LR dealer is a proper LR Franchise Garage then they should have started off follwing the questions and answer guide on GTR (Global Technical Resource) - which is a system that all proper LR dealers will have access to - which covers most of the probable causes for Td5 Misfire.... I wonder if they have?? Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5Spain Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 WWWHHHHHHOOOOPPPPPEEEEEEE! Guess what yes I have picke d up my TD5 today and it has "no" smoke and goes like the train it used to! Okay so what have they done, or not done as the case may be. Apart from all the work that has previously been done, as posted in this post, the final set of work has comprised:- 3 new injectors... Injector wiring loom...again New Turbo, full assembly... 1 new pipe!... New EGR assembly... New Flywheel sensor...SEcond one New MAF... Second one New throttle potentiometer... second one BUT still this did not work...... They then turned their attention to the ECU ah ha! They first of all said they "swapped" the ECU with another and this still had issues, although I dont believe they actually did this. Then I reminded them again that the engine was not original and still under warranty.......oh they said and started to look more closely at the existing ECU not matching up to the engine??????? THANKS IAN IT WAS YOUR POST THAT MADE ME PLANT THE SEED RE THIS. Anyway they traced the "faults" to the ECU and the relationship to the injectors coding etc... etc... and the fuelling. Before they had just believd the ECU was okay and the faults it was reporting. They tell me that they "remapped" and reprogrammed the ECU engine management system ( there may be some discrepancy in translation here so sorry) and hey presto all back together and it works. and work it does...yipppeeee. It basically came down to the ability of the mechanic who reads and understands the fault codes etc... and them listening to what they were told in the first place...As I read today the ECU can think everything is okay eventhough the sensors are not operating properly and it fuels etc... accordingly. So until the LR garage had the car I had spent over 400€ and then 200€ + on the diagnostics test etc... They have had the TD5 for over 3 weeks and done shed loads of work on it, I was dreading the bill. The turbo. injectors, wiring loom, MAF etc.... plus the labour and the umpteen diagnostic tests they have done. Are you sitting down here is the final bill from the LR garage............................NIL absolutely zilch... no charge...zero and they even smiled about it. The workshop manager explained in his bestest english that the warranty would cover the work as the original engine replacement ( Landrover) and re set up of the car "had not been done correctly" and the engine warranty would cover the costs........... I did not push the fact I had already spent over 600€ on it and been without a vehicle for over 3 weeks. Restored my faith it what was becoming a very very stressful episode so thankyou to all on here who have supported me with ideas and good wishes. Now I can start planning the addition of more "toys" Thanks again TD5Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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