Disco 1 axles on SII SWB

[jericho]

Just done mine -

A few pics Here

Austrailian Bill wouldn't like the track rod clearance (about 3/4"),but the spring pads are the same depth as before,if not slightly slimmer.

I now have a slight propshaft problem to sort out.There is always something.

[jericho]

Measured the track rod clearance today;its actually more like 15mm -

Time will tell if this is going to be a problem.

[4.6v8lwt]

If your worried about the gearing i did run a Ashcroft high ratio transfer box on my V8 lightweight which had the advantage of having the same gearing as standard in low box but in high box practically the same as if changing the diffs to 3.54s. Solved the problem of running away on steep downhills.

[XtremeMarineInc]

After looking at all the work you fellas have gone through; I am happy that I am planning a SpringOver for mine. Now if I can just figure out which shackle hangers to use. I have purchase 109 rears to replace my 88 rears. But I know that I am supposed to buy different fronts as well, for more clearance. Would you suggest using military 88 or 109 fronts. Or using another set of 109 rears in the front? Once I have the shackle hangers I need for the front, the chassis goes up on jackstands to start measuring the existing angles before I start cutting the perches for the springover.

[FridgeFreezer]

If you're spring-overing why fit extended shackles - do you really need that much clearance? Bear in mind every bit you jack it up is raising the CoG.

I had long (109 1-ton) shackles on the 109 but took them off when I rebuilt it as I just didn't need the height.

[XtremeMarineInc]

Actually; here in Florida; YES, we need the height. The mud depth and water crossing depths can get ridiculous. I will be fitting either 37 or 39.5 inch tires, so I need the most extended shackles available before doing the SOA. Please advise on what I should purchase for the front, to use in addition to my 109 rears. Thanks.

[FridgeFreezer]

If your rears look like these then buy the same again, if not then buy a set - they're the 109 1-ton (or military) shackles:

Or you could make a set to whatever length you want - they're not rocket science

[Jon White]

Bear in mind military shackels are different to 1 tonne shackles. IIRC the 1 tonne ones are a tad longer than the military ones.

IMHO its worth running extended shackles with standard front mounts if you're running parabolics as it allows more axle travel. There are other things like shock mounts, propshafts, castor angle etc to consider however.

John, do you really need to ask why??? I've never seen an American 4x4 that hasnt been jacked up so high in the air that its got snow on the top, or without ridiculously large donuts on it! Its the way they seem to do it.....probably also why you see so many pics of american 4x4's having rolled over off road....... They dont do trials, narrow green lanes, forest drives through tight trees like we do........

Finally what axles are you planning to run on this 109? Landrover axles wont last long with 39" tyres on them!

Jon

[XtremeMarineInc]

I will eventually installing 1986 Toyota FJ60 landcruiser axles underneath with 5.?? R&P's. I have the axles already but don''t want to do too much cutting and welding on them until I fully understand all angles and modifications involved with the SOA swap. So I will be doing the extended shackles and SOA swap first with the LR axles, and 235/85/16's on the 16" Series wheels. Then after it's running, and bugs have been worked out; switching to the Toy axles, and full 4 wheel disc connversion. After that's rolling and understood, I'll be swapping in my 4.0 DII motor converted to carb and distributor. After that , who knows. LOL.

[XtremeMarineInc]

FF; my shackles look nothing like that. They must be standard 109 rears. They look sort of like an elongated dogbone, with a threaded hole at each end. I compared them to what's at the rear of my 88", and they are longer. If I buy another set like you showed above, can I still use the ones I've purchased? If so; what direction? Mine on rear, yours on front; or the other way around?

[XtremeMarineInc]

BTW; Jon; I am not American. LOL. I am Italian-american. It's not my fault my parents had me here! But at least I was born in Boston. LOL ! I won't be going too high. I hate the redneck look on trucks. If I was building my truck for New England Forests, it would be completely different. But this truck is for florida sand and swamp. I am actually considering lowering the engine and tranny/t-case with subframes, so that the driveline angles are not too extreme. But, I want as much clearance under the frame as possible for the swampy conditions and submerged mangrove roots which we have to deal with here.

Just an aside, My DII Kalahari only has a 2" lift, and 265/16's (32's). It will go most anywhere I point it. But for the heavy duty stuff, it's too nice and too expensive to keep trashing. It has only 40k miles, and I've already replaced the 4.0 with a 4.6. The t-vcase with an LT230, ands a new trans. I want something I won't feel bad about denting or scratching. LOL.

[FridgeFreezer]

They look sort of like an elongated dogbone, with a threaded hole at each end.

They're stock ones then, not the longer ones. No harm running long at one end and short at t he other but you'll look a bit daft with one end of the truck higher than the other. For the few pounds a set of those will set you back it's hardly worth it.

I'll be swapping in my 4.0 DII motor converted to carb and distributor.

You're a sick man, why ruin a perfectly good engine? Get it MegaSquirted with EDIS and then you might be able to stay running in the water...

[XtremeMarineInc]

So then, the 109 are longer than the 88, but not as long as the military 1 tonne. Correct?

I am going away from fuel injection for two reasons. 1) Cost effectiveness. I don't have it in the budget to do the engine rebuild and fuelie. Going to squeajk by on just an engine rebuid. Maybe 4.6 pistons in it. Carb, intake manifold, and distrivbutor compatible camshaft are all less than just getting the stock fuel injection components. Not including aftermarket. Plus, I actually want to lose HP, and get more low end torque. Too much HP, and the SIII box won't be able to handle it.

2) Less electrical gremlins to deal with when going through 36-42 inches of water regularly. My DII on 32's has never been through a mud hole here where I could see my tread, always past the tires, and sometimes, past the fender flares.

[Jon White]

Still dont see the point in SOA conversion cos it doesnt help you with under axle clearance. Better off fitting portal axles IMHO then you dont get the agro with propshafts etc.

Rear end wont casue you too many problems, but the front will! Unless you move the transfer box back a long way and re-make the crossmembers you'll get into loads of problems with U/Js binding etc. My front prop binds on full droop as it is....

Series boxes are made of cheese and are barely up to the power of the standrd 2.25 petrol. You'll need a better box if you're going that big engine wise.

[XtremeMarineInc]

I am planning on doing a different box down the road, but I have two SIII boxes, and two SIIa boxes all complete with t-cases. And an adapter to go to the v8. So Why buy a better box, when I can keep changing out the ones I have, then selling the leftovers for parts after I bl;ow them up? LOL!

Once again; please: WHICH are the longest shackles I can fit front and rear. The SOA is not for under axle clearance. It's to keep the electrical and passenger compartment as dry as possible.

Thanks, guys.

[Tonk]

4 series boxes would have lasted me about 6 months, and that was when i was running a 2.5NAD which is known for not a lot of power

u can fit as long a shackle as u fancy if u make them yourself, as jon states though u will get into problems with yoke bind and xmember scalloping.

military 1 tonne shackles are the longest standard which FF shows above

[FridgeFreezer]

So then, the 109 are longer than the 88, but not as long as the military 1 tonne. Correct?

I don't know if they're longer than 88's but the 1-ton ones are longer, yes.

Maybe 4.6 pistons in it.

Doesn't that mean you'd need to bore it out?

Carb, intake manifold, and distrivbutor compatible camshaft are all less than just getting the stock fuel injection components. Not including aftermarket.

But the stock fuel injection components cost more than MegaSquirt, an ECU is about $300, a Ford EDIS module is probably $20 and the rest of it is pretty much already bolted to your engine as standard. You can re-use the RV8 coil packs or pretty much any coil packs you find round the junkyard, the Ford ones are a great design and there are millions of them out there.

Plus, I actually want to lose HP, and get more low end torque.

With carbs you will lose HP, and torque, and driveability...

Too much HP, and the SIII box won't be able to handle it.

When Land Rover put the 3.5 V8 into the Stage 1 V8 they considered the massive 98bhp enough to warrant fitting the Range Rover gearbox, I think that should tell you something

2) Less electrical gremlins to deal with when going through 36-42 inches of water regularly.

You need to read up on MS'n'EDIS then. Distributors hate water, allow Rog to demonstrate the benefits of MS

[FridgeFreezer]

It's to keep the electrical and passenger compartment as dry as possible.

For what little you gain it seems a lot of arse-ache, bolt the electrics to the ceiling and call it job done. If you're in water deep enough to fill the passenger compartment then dropping the level by a couple of inches hardly seems worth the effort - if your underwear is filling with water the depth to your nipples hardly seems worth worrying about. Your dizzy will give up before the water level troubles any of the vital Series electrical systems

The raised electrics system seems to work for Jez, bear in mind these are running 40" tyres:

All the major electrics are on the roof, the only problem we've had was sand in the headlight switch but that's on the steering column and so spends some of its life submerged...

[XtremeMarineInc]

Tonk; LOL! One thing, is that this truck will not be street-legal. It is for off-road only, and I will be fitting a rpm lockout somewhere around 2000 rev's. This will be a weekend trail rig only, and with my schedule, I make it out maybe one or two days a month. lol.

I guess this is where my confusion is coming from. One group says that 1 tonne and military shackles are different. Another group says they are the same, in one sentence. And no one has said anything about differences from front to rear. The set I have now to be put on is the rear of a standard 109. They are longer than my 88 rears. If I buy another set, I want to get ones that will work with what I have, or buy all four corners, but I need to know what goes where.

[Astro_Al]

A 4.6 and 39s with a series 3 gearbox and regular rover axles???

Fixed it for you:

This will be a weekend trail rig only, and with my schedule, I'll break a gearbox maybe one or two days a month. lol.

Just one useful point - you can do shackles any length you like if you are feeling really redneck (watch those propshaft UJs!)... But if they are any longer than standard, don't neglect to add in the centre spacer as shown in the pics previously in this thread!!!

Good luck. I honestly think your parts combination needs a little re-think, but I hope it all works out for you.

Cheers, Al.

[FridgeFreezer]

I will be fitting a rpm lockout somewhere around 2000 rev's.

So the rev limiter will cost how much? Bearing in mind MS offers hard & soft-cut rev limiter as standard for the money...

Also, what's the logic to having a 2000rpm rev limit, is it a wheelin' thing that we don't get or what, cos I can't see the point of fitting a 4.6, crippling it with clockwork fuelling and ignition and then knocking the top half of it's performance off with a rev limiter you may as well stick an old 3.5 in there with a 3k rev limit and just drive in a lower gear

[XtremeMarineInc]

Al; who said 4.6? Who said Rover axles?

I said a 4.0, maybe with 4.6 pistons. (No overbore necessary, FF) the 4.0 and 4.6 have the same bore , but bigger stroke in the 4.6.

I said Toyota FJ60 landcruiser axles would be fitted before the v8 was put in.

I will be having Bill at GBR build the custom driveshafts with the right Everything to make the angles, lengths, and flex work properly and safely.

FF; because I have a 4.0 long block sitting in the carport. And finding a good useable 3.5 statesside is ridiculous. I could get a 3.9 easily, but I already have the 4.0. I overheated it and burned a hole in one piston but the sleeves are fine, and the block and heads did not warp. But the coil packs, along with the engine wiring harness, and all senders melted and are shot. Half of the FI components (or more) went on the 4.6 block, because I bought a P38 gems, and had to convert it to the Bosch in my DII.

Any more questions which have Nothing to do with my question about shackles?

Does anybody have an anser , or should I just buy every set of shackles on eBayUK, figure it out through trial and error, then tiddle off the next guy with a question, by holding back all Relevent answers!!!

[Astro_Al]

Steady mate!

I apologise for misunderstanding the order of changing engine and axles. You could, of course, clarify politely.

To a series box a 4.0 or 4.6 litre V8 is much the same thing. In the same way that having a 300 pound girlfriend is much the same as having a 320 pound girlfriend.

Bill is a great guy, that's reassuring news that wasn't included before.

I did actually give you some useful info on shackles. I added the longest shackles to my swb series once upon a time. I held back from stating which type they were cos I didn't want to mislead you with faded memories, but I *think* they are the 1 tonne shackles. Phone Craddocks, I'm pretty sure they'll give you the answer over the phone (they even let me photocopy the relevant pages from the parts manual when I bought mine from them), and have all the bits ready to send you out a nice box of shiny bits. You'll need someone like Mothercare ( http://www.mothercare.com/gp/home.html ) to replace the items recently thrown from your pram. Perhaps you could combine shipping to save cost?

Seriously, good luck. Al.

[XtremeMarineInc]

Seriously; thanks Al. I was trying to be as polite as possible, to you. I was giving FF some heck, just out of my jealousy for his rig. I have just asked over and over again, and gotten no clear, and plain answer. I appreciate your information. But I will be doing the engine last. I have two complete running 2.25's at the house, and they are pretty bulletproof from what I've read. From what I am hearing from you guys, I will probably just go with 37's now. The 39.5's may be too big, even for the Yota bits.

I won't do anything without the advice of GBR, my guru. He is going to be my father in law, so I don't even think about this project without calling him first.

[Astro_Al]

Thats cool man - I know how frustrating it can be to find the info.

Sorry I can't remember better...

Mr Freezer could well be right about EFI costs - unless you have the carb etc sat around not doing anything, M/squirt may work out cheaper, and is ceertainly superior - just one for you to think about when you're at work in your free time...

But in principle I agree - the smug git should be given a hard time whenever possible!

Al.