Paul Humphreys Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 B)--> QUOTE(steve b @ May 21 2007, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Been talking winchs to lots of different people lately and some has told me of a H14 mech (i think) that wore out the worm & worm wheel -because it was filled in the gearcase with EP90- to the point where it self locked when powered in...might be worth a look inside ? you could also take the motor off the winch & run it up to see if it runs ok (rotationally , not under load obviously)?.....I never realised phosphor-bronze could be attacked by ep 90......will be freeing off the drain on mine & looking for the right oil-mines a fairey mech winch powered hydraulically so if anyone knows the correct oil? Steveb It sounds like your winch is the same as mine, just they changed the name when they were taken over. The manual is on this forum, do a search its in one of the threads I have started. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 Had the winch/motor tested by a Hydraulic place today. Looks like the motor is on the way out. The winch will pull 2T but stalls with 3.2t to pull. All dead weights. So it looks like the winch is ok. So they are going to see if they can get me a replacement motor. (some luck ) As my drive motor has 3 pipes in/out of it. I have just sent an email asking PG Winches if they have one. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmatt Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Had the winch/motor tested by a Hydraulic place today. Looks like the motor is on the way out.The winch will pull 2T but stalls with 3.2t to pull. All dead weights. So it looks like the winch is ok. So they are going to see if they can get me a replacement motor. (some luck ) As my drive motor has 3 pipes in/out of it. I have just sent an email asking PG Winches if they have one. Paul Hi Paul, Glad you have found the problem at last, good luck with the motor i dred to think what that will cost!! Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 Hi Paul,Glad you have found the problem at last, good luck with the motor i dred to think what that will cost!! Matt About £150, but its getting one. The only place I have tried said you can not get them anymore. As mine has 3 pipes and all then ones now have only 2 . Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 where the F do the 3 pipes go 1 to and 1 from the spool block fine, but where does the 3rd go ? Maybe if it is to the shuttle valve you can do without ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 where the F do the 3 pipes go1 to and 1 from the spool block fine, but where does the 3rd go ? Maybe if it is to the shuttle valve you can do without ? Nige Possible, it goes from the drive motor to the spool block. I wil have to see if I can get some blanking plugs and try it. The place just tested it. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 could be a LP return to tank from motor if the motor has an overcentre valve fitted in it. I have a spare motor from a Milemarker in the garage if you want- i also haev a spare spool block- has one double acting lever (ie 0-n-0) and one single acting lever (ie N-O). Let me know if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 could be a LP return to tank from motor if the motor has an overcentre valve fitted in it. I have a spare motor from a Milemarker in the garage if you want- i also haev a spare spool block- has one double acting lever (ie 0-n-0) and one single acting lever (ie N-O). Let me know if you're interested. No good to me I think. My motor is not fitted to the winch, its a remote with a shaft to drive the winch. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 No good to me I think. My motor is not fitted to the winch, its a remote with a shaft to drive the winch.Paul Yep But that 3rd item is an odd one Phone superwinch, ask for tony in technical and ask him what the "3rd" pipe does and can you do without it ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 YepBut that 3rd item is an odd one Phone superwinch, ask for tony in technical and ask him what the "3rd" pipe does and can you do without it ? Nige I have emailed Tony about 2 weeks ago and never got an answer. He was the one I spoke to about the winch when I got the 110. It was him who emailed the manual to me. But the hydraulic system is not the standard one they fit. It might have something to with been fited the same time as the Auto box when it was new just after it left LR to be fitted out. But I have emailed Superwinch again today anyway. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 E-mails don't stop them chatting and drinking coffee as well as a 'ringing' phone I know, Tried e-mailing them in the past - not exactly good at replying.......................... Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted June 1, 2007 Author Share Posted June 1, 2007 E-mails don't stop them chatting and drinking coffee as well as a 'ringing' phone I know, Tried e-mailing them in the past - not exactly good at replying.......................... Nige Will give them a call today and let you know. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 My guess is the 3rd line is an external drain from the case. This is common on hyd pumps and motors. Internal leakage is returned to tank with low back pressure to avoid blowing the shaft seals. Not all pumps or motors have external drains. Depends upon the type or if they operate at lower system pressures or have improved seal designs. Many of the low speed high torque motors are gerator type. The operating pressure of these is limited due to the sliding action in their design. The geroller types have rollers and can operate at higher pressures. Edit: Sometimes it is optional to fit an external case drain, or plug the port (depending on system pressure etc). BTW you can judge how good the condition of a pump or motor is by observing the leakage flow rate from the case drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted June 1, 2007 Author Share Posted June 1, 2007 I called Tony at Superwinch, and left a message wit hsomeone else as he was in a meeting. But never got a call back, so will try again sunday. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Further to my earlier post regarding the 3rd port on the motor. Some hydraulic motors have internal mechanical brakes. I have not had any experience with these, but I assume they would need pressure to release the brake and naturally would have a 3rd port. If your motor has an internal brake, it would look a little longer than normal and if you posted a pic or posted the name plate details we might be able to tell. It would also explain why it does not pull, assuming the brake release line is not corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted June 2, 2007 Author Share Posted June 2, 2007 Further to my earlier post regarding the 3rd port on the motor.Some hydraulic motors have internal mechanical brakes. I have not had any experience with these, but I assume they would need pressure to release the brake and naturally would have a 3rd port. If your motor has an internal brake, it would look a little longer than normal and if you posted a pic or posted the name plate details we might be able to tell. It would also explain why it does not pull, assuming the brake release line is not corrected. Hi John, It looks like a standard size. But I dont have a good pic, but will get one tomorrow. I have all the details from the motor, IMR027PPDRRK 8301 70290 Motor was/is made by Dowty. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 The third port on the motor is usually a bleed off for over pressure to prevent the seals being damaged, this pipe usually is returned to the tank, or in this case the smaller port on the valve block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 The third port on the motor is usually a bleed off for over pressure to prevent the seals being damaged, this pipe usually is returned to the tank, or in this case the smaller port on the valve block. So "if" I block it off it will not cause damage other than blow the seals? If thats the cast I can block it off and retest the winch, if it dose blow the seals it would not matter as I need a motor anyway. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Should be fine for test purposes, the idea of the third port is when going from forward to reverse under load or visa versa the pressurised oil is bled off thus protecting the seals and returning the oil to the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 Should be fine for test purposes, the idea of the third port is when going from forward to reverse under load or visa versa the pressurised oil is bled off thus protecting the seals and returning the oil to the tank. I will get some blanking plugs and test it a gain befoe getting a new motor. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Paul, if it helps I was told by superwinch that the motor fitted to the H14 is a Parker TB series motor, code number TB0130AS100LAAY. This is the one that they use on a mini bellhousing bolted directly to the winch. I assume on the LR set up that it is the same motor, but just bolted to the bracket that bolts onto the chassis, then uses the stub shaft to drive the winch. You can down load tech info from the parker website. From the hydraulic motors/pumps I've looked at the third port is usually the bleed from the casing back to the tank. This keeps the casing pressure low. If you run the pump up with this blocked the casing will pressureize to discharge pressure and potentially blow the seals. Also with this type of set up the casing often needs to be full of oil to lubricate the pump internals. Hence they are ment to be filled with oil via this port prior to connecting up the vent line and running the motor. Additionally it will allow any air in the casing to be swept back to the tank. I think the parker pump above has only two ports. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Sorry I don't have any info on Dowty motors. If the 3rd line is a drain, it should go back to tank. For testing, stick the open end of the hose into a drum (assuming your tank has a reasonable capacity and won't run low) - if the motor is any good, the flow will be low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 Paul,if it helps I was told by superwinch that the motor fitted to the H14 is a Parker TB series motor, code number TB0130AS100LAAY. This is the one that they use on a mini bellhousing bolted directly to the winch. I assume on the LR set up that it is the same motor, but just bolted to the bracket that bolts onto the chassis, then uses the stub shaft to drive the winch. You can down load tech info from the parker website. From the hydraulic motors/pumps I've looked at the third port is usually the bleed from the casing back to the tank. This keeps the casing pressure low. If you run the pump up with this blocked the casing will pressureize to discharge pressure and potentially blow the seals. Also with this type of set up the casing often needs to be full of oil to lubricate the pump internals. Hence they are ment to be filled with oil via this port prior to connecting up the vent line and running the motor. Additionally it will allow any air in the casing to be swept back to the tank. I think the parker pump above has only two ports. Adrian Thanks for that, but the h14 I have seen have only the 2 pipes. Sorry I don't have any info on Dowty motors.If the 3rd line is a drain, it should go back to tank. For testing, stick the open end of the hose into a drum (assuming your tank has a reasonable capacity and won't run low) - if the motor is any good, the flow will be low. I will be giving it a go later this week. Not had tome this weekend as I was away at the LRW show. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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