Where to buy the bits for wiring in spots?

[Madcowz]

Hi,

I have searched for this before posting but can't find any answers...

I have read many threads on how to wire in a set of spots on the front and bought a Ring wiring kit off the 'bay which is next to useless as it doesn't have enough wire and the wire is too thin (ok for the low voltage side but not the main) and also didn't include a fuse.

Where can I order the correct guage wire & inline fuse holder to do this properly, and what guage would you suggest (I have seen people recommend 4mm)? I don't want to have to order a 100mm drum of two different colours as it would cost a small fortune.

Also, I don't seem to have any electrical shops anywhere near me (Dorking/Horsham) and will probably have to do this online. Where have all the decent electrical shops gone these days? It seems that everything is either a coffee shop, boutique or mobile phone shop. Where are those old dark shops with the 85 year old bloke in brown overalls who knows exactly which dusty tin contains the bit you need?

I plan to stick the fuse and relay in the battery box and then run the cables from there. At least then I know everything is good.

thanks,

/Mad

[neilwilson]

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-...me/homepage.php

Neil

[Mo Murphy]

I'll second VWP

Mo

[Madcowz]

Thanks guys, that is a great link and a site full of things I want to buy.

/Mad

[Top90]

I went there to order a few bits and spent far more than planned on all sorts of cool stuff.

Quick delivery and everything present and correct too.

[SteveBo]

Vehicle Wiring Products are good as is http://www.polevolt.co.uk/

VWP sell most of what you need but if you want to make up a proper protected loom using convoluted tube then Polevolt has a full range.

Since amps = watts / volts a 100w spot would require cable capable of handling 8.3 amps. Add on a safety margin and you might want to use 1mm thinwall (17 amp). However, that assumes you run a separate supply and earth to each lamp.

If you run a common supply and earth to the first lamp then hook the second up to that you will need to assume 200w / 12v = 16.6 amps and so go for thicker cable.

Obviously you'll need a relay, switches, connectors etc.

If in doubt give either of them a call. They are very helpful.

Cheers,

[Madcowz]

Since amps = watts / volts a 100w spot would require cable capable of handling 8.3 amps. Add on a safety margin and you might want to use 1mm thinwall (17 amp). However, that assumes you run a separate supply and earth to each lamp.

Thanks for the advice.

This is a minefield for me. Give me several racks of servers and Gigabit LAN and I'm happy. Anything with 'lecytricity' in it and I start to shy away.

I will be running 2 x 55 watt lamps so that works out at 9.1 amps.

What % safety margin should I go for in the cable and the fuse?

The cables choices are:

11 amp

16.5 amp

25 amp

I would in my extreme ignorance say that the 11 is too close a tolerance so go for 16.5? If so, what size fuse should I use as 10 amps is too little and could blow and 15 amps is too close to the max of the cable and might not blow before the cable. So therefore should I up it and go for 25 amp cable and then a 15 amp fuse?

Also, would it be a wise idea to put a connector block into the battery compartment so that in the future I can easily take further feeds, each one fused differently. Something like this:

In which case, what size cable should I have from the battery to this box and how do I connect this to the battery?

Again, I would assume that I would use battery cable, ie the thick stuff that feeds the starter ie:

I have a relay and spade connectors, crimper, soldering iron and switches. It is just the cable I need to sort.

And apologies if this has all been covered ad nauseum. I have searched and found little bits of info but not enough to make me feel comfortable.

thanks,

/Mad

EDIT:

Although I have just read this:

110W / 12V = 9.16A

therefore with a little bit of margin we should be using 10A cable

now consider the distance over which you're going to carry 10A as this relates to the wire size / gauge - the easiest way to do this is to look on a wiring chart, e.g. the bottom table on the following link

http://www.rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm

so if we're wiring front spot lights on a Defender back to the battery box, we'll probably use about 8 feet --> 18AGW --> 1mm2

combined with a 10A fuse, you're onto a winner

Can't see 18AGW on that page as that works out as: 0.8mm2

[Guest diesel_jim]

I'm about to make up the (huge!) wiring loom for the back of my project110 (for carPC,two amps, rear work lights, CB etc etc etc) so have, ahem "borrowed" some cable and bits from work.

If you measure for me, the route you want the cable to go (from the spot lights across whichever side of the vehicle (probably the LH side i'm thinking) and back down to where you want the fuse box, i'll make you a loom up.

you using one relay? (a standard automotive one will be fine, if you ever plan to fit some carlos vandango 130watt spots you can always use a 70amp relay) in which case i'll series the spots up and run an earth back as well (which you can either connect straight to the battery or i'll leave enough tail on there to poke it through one of the grommets and connect it to the chassis/gearbox earth)

[western]

all my 55watt bulbs in my amber beacon bar & front fog & driving lights are feed via 10amp fuse per 2 bulbs & a 10amp switch, fog/driving lights are wired through relay's the beacon bar isn't.

[SteveBo]

1mm thinwall with separate cables (remember earth needs to have the same capacity) to each lamp should be fine.

Are you going to add more lights or accessories on the front?

I have slung an IP56 junction box (B&Q) under the blank panel on my off-side wing using a couple of SS button bolts (ebay). Then I ran 13mm conv tube from the underseat box along the chassis up to this junction box. From this I have a length of 10mm conv tube down to the front bumper for a couple of fog//driving lights. I can also connect another bit of 10mm conv to run up the snorkel and feed roof spots. This means I can easily disconnect if I decide to take the roof rack off.

I also added another horn (since the existing one is so weedy) using 4mm conv tube from the junction box http://www.stebel.it/stebel/index2007_1.htm .

By using a HD earth strap from the junction box to the chassis I don't need to run earth leads back to the seat box/battery

So, I just need to run positive supplies from the seat box up to the junction box and use normal connector strips to plumb everything in.

I added an extra fuse box in the space next to the ECU under the seat with a direct feed from the battery. This has relays for the horn, roof spots and fog lights. These are switched from a Mud Pod on top of the dash.

Obviously, you'll need to use HD cable for the battery feed and earth straps.

As stated above you should over capacity the cable +50% at least but keep the fuse close to the load +15% so the fuse blows before the wires burn out. Relays tend to be 25a or 30a so should be OK.

Hours of fun to be had working out how to get switched supplies from the dash to the relays under the seat!

[Madcowz]

@ diesel_jim

Thank you for your kind offer but I am a glutton for punishment and I really like doing things myself, so will decline your offer so that I may spend many hours in the rain with cut and sore fingers wishing I hadn't Appreciated though.

@Stevbo

I am planning on adding extra lights to the front (fogs) and possible a light bar on the roof (for lamping bunnies) and I may also take the air horn out of my old car as it had an even worse horn than the landy (unbelievable I know, but it is French). So there is a need for extra bits to be added later on.

Would my best course of action be to run a thick cable from battery through to the engine bay/wing and have a fuse/junction box there and then off to the seperate relays or put the fuse box in the battery box and the relays next to it?

I noticed you said you had a fuse box and relays in the battery box so surely you must then have loads of wires coming out of there off to the various other extras?

And what on earth is HD cable?

thanks,

This is what I have so far for the fuse and relays in the battery box ...

[SteveBo]

Sorry, by HD I meant heavy duty. So for the battery to fuse box connection I used battery feed cable from VWP and used the same cable for the (from memory 6mm 50 amp thinwall) the junction box earth strap.

As far as I know it's not possible to by a waterproof fuse/relay box. So unless you can think of a practcal way of waterproofing one I would recommend keeping it inside the car. One thing to watch out for is the bottom of the fuseboxes are open so you'll need to make sure the live connections can't accidentally come into contact with any metalwork creating a short circuit/fire etc. Getting the lid on the fusebox is a tight squeeze on my TD5 and I have to disconnect the ECU to get to it.

Anothe reason for keeping the fuesbox under the seat is I added a DIN socket in the back for fridge/worklight etc, 3 power sockets on a Mud Tray and another 2 plus a CB radio in a Mobile Storage Systems cubby box.

Some of these need an always on feed while others are better on an ignition switched circuit. So, I have the battery feed comng direct from the +ve terminal across to the driver's seatbox. This is then split to feed a 70 amp relay (protected by a 70a fuse) switched by a feed from the ignition and supplying a common fuserail and another fuse rail that is always on. Then I have 4 more relays for horn, outer roof lights, inner roof lights and fog lights. Other fuses feed the power sockets and radio. The fues relay units are modular so you can build your own spec

This means you'll need a bundle of cables from the switch panel/dash to trigger the relays and another bundle for the live feeds to the lights/horn etc.

If you decide to fit a tachometer you will need a feed from the ECU (if yours is a TD5) to the dash so now is a good time to run this as well.

For the feeds to the lights I used 13mm tube as said aready. I used a step hole bit to cut a hole in the under seat box and a nylon cable gland from B&Q to hold and seal the tube. The cable ties to run it along the chassis.

For the switch triggers, I ran a bundle of 0.5mm thinwall in a nylon sleeve (VWP) from the dash fusebox under the carpet and cubby box into the seat box. You may decide to run these through the bulkhead and back down the convoluted tube back to the under seat box. A bit of planning is required as this starts to get complicated. I also used a singe colour of positive feed wire so I could buy 100m reels. Then a book of cable lables from Maplin helped keep track of what is what.

On my TD5 XS I managed to get the switch cables up under the fusebox then between the aircon and bulkhead into the area behind the radio then up to the hole where the ashtray was. I took a switched ignition feed of the accessory socket wire at the fusebox for the main 70a relay and to feed any switches I want controlled by ignition (heated mirrors). A main beam on feed can come of the main beam fuse for the spot light switches and a lights-on feed for the fog lights taken of the instrument lighting circuit.

A cheap multimeter is very useful when workiing out if you've got good earth connections, complete circuits and for tracing wires the lables have dropped off. Likewise a cable pulling tool will help if your using the protecive tubing.

Forgot to mention I also used a common earth strap from the fusebox to an earthing point in the under seat box to connect all the relay earths to.

I'm in the process of making the loom for all my switches so hopefully everything will be connected this weekend. I'll try and take some pictures.

Next project will be and EMS2 unit for turbo boost, EGT - more money, more cables...

I'd say take your time, think about all the things you might want to add later and stick some spare cables in so you don't have to undo things later.

Cheers,

[Guest diesel_jim]

I'd say take your time, think about all the things you might want to add later and stick some spare cables in so you don't have to undo things later.

^^^^ What he said.... definately handy to run in an extra couple of cables, some thick, some thin. you never know what you might decide to install tomorrow!

@ diesel_jim

Thank you for your kind offer but I am a glutton for punishment and I really like doing things myself, so will decline your offer so that I may spend many hours in the rain with cut and sore fingers wishing I hadn't Appreciated though.

No problem. shout if you need some cable though, got plenty here, can cut you a few meters off of a drum to save you buying a load (unless you're planning to run loads all over the vehicle, then a drum would probably be handy)

[SteveBo]

After two days of skinned knuckles, two trips to Halfords and a self tapper down the back of the dash I've finally got my fogs wired and working, the tacho fitted and the clock moved to the Mud Pod. Also got a Parrot bluetooth hands free kit fitted and working.

I blew 4 fuses trying to find always on, ignition and lights on power sources. Still need to connect to the main beam circuit for the roof lights but I've run out of daylight. Also blew an instrument lamp.

So, I'd say make sure you've got a selection of fuses available before you start and one of those magnetised trays is a help for holding screws.

Off to read up on hydraulic winches now (and beer)...

[Madcowz]

SteveBo

Do you have any pictures of your work? I am still planning the wiring and would like to see pictures of others work to give me ideas.

Also, can you clear up some confusion for me.

If I run a 6mm feed from the battery + to the fuse distro box and from there, run separate cables to each of the ancillaries I want to add. Each of these will also run to earth. Why then do I need to earth the distro box as well?

Also, you say that you run the cable from the battery to the distro box under the drivers seat box. Why not have the distro box in the same compartment as the battery? Do you have the relays under the drivers seat or elsewhere?

Getting on to cables,.

0.5mm(11amp) thinwall for the switching side and 1mm (16.5amp) for the feed?

If I have say 6 lots of 1mm feed cables in a convoluted tube (from the distro box), would it be easier to run this underneath rather than inside. I can’t see how I can get this from the seat boxes to the engine bay without it looking naff. Also, I would want to run the 6 switch cables from the dash down this tube to the relays. That makes 12 cables in total.

Obviously not all 6 feeds are going to the engine bay, some would go to the dash (eg CB), one to the roof bar and one to front fogs. While others maybe to the back. Suppose I best get the pen and paper out and plan what I need now and what I might need later.

Anyway, if anyone has pictures of what they have done and where they have put it I would love to see them.

Thanks.

[Madcowz]

Damn, forgot to ask how to wire in an battery gauge.

It is part No: PRC 3108 and has 4 wires. Two for the light and two for the gauge. Where should I plumb this in?

thanks.

/mad

[western]

Damn, forgot to ask how to wire in an battery gauge.

It is part No: PRC 3108 and has 4 wires. Two for the light and two for the gauge. Where should I plumb this in?

thanks.

/mad

if it's for the main vehicle [start ] battery feed it from any of the plain white wires off the main loom or fusebox or ignition switch.

[SteveBo]

I'll post some pictures tomorrow when it's stopped raining.

I put the fuse/relay box under the driver's seat to leave room for a double battery setup at some point. However it is a snug fit and requires unlugging the ECU connectors to remove the lid.

The earth from the box is for the relay earth connections. Just a bit tidier than individual earth wires.

I did use 0.5mm and 1.0mm thinwall but this means running seperate cables to each lamp for safety.

Still trying to work out the best way to get heated mirror cables into the cab.

I haven't installed a bettery gauge as I may go for an EMS2 from Madman

Next project is a hydraulic winch...

Cheers

[Guest diesel_jim]

if it's for the main vehicle [start ] battery feed it from any of the plain white wires off the main loom or fusebox or ignition switch.

The cigarette lighter feed is a good source to run the volt meter, as it's the only thing (usually) on that fuse circuit, so you'll not get any strange readings when another electrical item draws some current and produces a volt drop.

not that the guages are that accurate anyway...

[western]

Cig lighter feed is always live though, so the voltmeter will always show a reading of battery volts & won't switch off when the ignition is off. connecting it on the ignition controlled white wires, will switch the voltmeter off when the ign. is off. & that's how LR did it.

or you could do it this way [just ignore the text under the diagram, thats for my 110]

[Madcowz]

I took a feed off the ignition and it works a treat. There was a clock in there before so I had two which I thought was a bit much.

Now I have another guage and I like guages.

thanks for your help.

[Guest diesel_jim]

Cig lighter feed is always live though, so the voltmeter will always show a reading of battery volts & won't switch off when the ignition is off.

none of my 90/110's have ever been permanent live. always ign switched.

[western]

none of my 90/110's have ever been permanent live. always ign switched.

must have been changed when 90/110 got called Defender then, cos my 110's cig lighter is permanent live as is the time clock.

[Guest diesel_jim]

must have been changed when 90/110 got called Defender then, cos my 110's cig lighter is permanent live as is the time clock.

Maybe so. my 200Tdi, and subsequent 300's and Td5's have all had ignition switched cig sockets.

an interesting side note, an old peugeot 405 i had as company car, there were 2 positions in the fuse box for the cig lighter fuse, in one position the socket was ignition fed, pull the fuse and plug it into the other holes, and it became permanent live. very useful, especially for phone chargers/GPS etc.

[western]

on Australian market 90/110's the wiring diagram shows the cig lighter as ignition controlled, must be down to local vehicle regs.