Les Henson Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 It's not a good idea to put a used piston from one engine into another, but as a quick fix it might be ok. You would be wise to run it in though. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 This is frightening stuff Marcus. It's always in the back of my mind that if something big like this happens we really are out on a limb here so far from Land Rover specialists on every street corner. I was out with a film crew yesterday in the middle of absolutely nowhere, worst off road conditions I have ever experienced and bear tracks everywhere. The horrible thought of something giving way was constantly on my mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 I;ve got the strengthener plate off (only half the oil pump off due to chocolate bolts!), Number 2 piston big end off and !!!! I found the problem The big end shell is in bits. As soon as I undid the big end I was able to push the piston up through the cylinder with the tip of my finger. Nice and smooth. Is this going to be a simple case of changing the shell (and the other 3 while I'm at it) or is there more than that involved. My friend still thinks its U/S and I need a new engine but I really dont see why? There are some scorings on the inside of the big end too. Pictured. What do I do now ? Also I found a bunch of debris in the sump, lots of copper looking stuff and some kind of brittel hard stuff (the big bit in the middle of the pic) and a couple of what look like broken rubber rings. All pictured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 More pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 First off you need to examine and measure the crank journal. If I were you I would also be looking at the others too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 whats a crank journal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Jeeeeez, I never saw that! Very nasty ... 1. We need close up pics of the cranckshaft journal. If you have access to a gauge ("micrometru" in romanian) you should measure the journal. 2. How does the upper bearing look like (pic)? How does the other side of the conrod look like (where the upper bearing goes in the conrod)? 3. You need to take off the remaining 3 bigend shells and inspect (pics if they're not ok). 4. Same thing for the main shells. Remove the center 3 shell caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 the journal is the cylindric portion of the cranckshaft where a bearing is. The area where the bearing comes in contact with the cranckshaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Please can you give me some clue as to what is what? I jusnt learned about 20 mins ago what a big end shell is. I dont know any of the things you asked me to check Some kind of picture or laymans explination if possible please. Then I will come running back with new pics and info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Ok. I take it the journal is meant to be perfectly round? I have a calliper here I can measure with. What should it be? (I guess I can just measure a healthy one first) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Here is a pic of the whole lot. Could you do some arrows and names for me please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Yes, the journal should be more or less round. Not to "less" though. Here is what you need to measure the journal: http://www.mdmstandard.ro/images/Micrometr...0tambur%201.gif The one pictured is not suitable cause it has to be capable of measuring up to 50 mm. Hold on a sec to look at the pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I reckon your problem with the 10mm bolts is that you are using a standard 12-point socket. I threw mine away long ago after having troubles with the timing case bolts and bought a high-quality 6-point socket. Yes, you are right, LR have special bolts made of chocolate in Switzerland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Here's a cranckshaft (with only 3 main journals - you have 5): Remove only the middle 3. Mind how they are bolted cause you'll have to put them back as they were. You have the picture you posted just above in case you forget how they were. Was there something else I needed to name? Yes, you should use good quality 6 side 10mm socket. A good one costs about 3 quid (1/2 inch). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 thanks. that is all clear now. that last thing is this "2. How does the upper bearing look like (pic)? How does the other side of the conrod look like (where the upper bearing goes in the conrod)?" Where is it, how do I get to it, what am I looking for, and what is a conrod? Is that the shaft goign from the big end to the bottom of the piston? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Rephrase: 2. How does the upper bearing shell in the conrod corresponding to #2 piston look like (the piston+conrod you took out by pushing with your finger)? How does the conrod look like where this shell does/sits? The bearing shell has 2 halfs. We saw the bottom half (what's left of it) and the conrod cap (whatever the name is). We need to see the other half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 It all looks ok but I am shinning with a torch to see up a small hole. Is it safe to remove the piston to have a good inspection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Only if you remove the carbon deposits at the top of the cylinder with a piece a hard wood. To put it back in you'll need a special tool (forgot the name) to compress the rings, I'll post a pic if needed. Don't take out the piston yet. You can take off the bearing shell with the piston in situ and inspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Ok. I'm going now to get new pictures. The piston is already pushed up enough for the top piston ring to be out (need to compress it with two screw drivers as I saw posted before to get it back in. I'll be back later with more info and pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
python Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 the con rod or connecting rod is the shaft that connects the big end bearing to the piston, there is another half circle bearing on the bottom of the con-rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 This is the conrod (connecting rod). Big end is on the right and small end on the left. This is the crank pin (or journal) Big end cap (with a bearing shell fitted) Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Right now you are getting deeper and deeper in the sh!t ……………… A big end bearing (and also main bearings) consist of two half shells ……….. with big ends, one locates on the lower face of the conrod and the other onto the bearing cap. You pic of the shells shows that you have removed both halves of the bearing. To me it seems as though there are two possibilities ………… one is that the engine is worn out………..but you would have had very little oil pressure (oil light ‘on’ during idle etc) ………… also with that amount of wear the big ends it would have made a loud metallic knocking sound …….. yes, you would have noticed it ! The second possibility is that the No2 bearing has ‘picked up’ on the crank and spun the bearing……………..a spun bearing is not usual on our motors and more akin to the large US V8’s…………….but I have seen it happen on 300 tdi's Looking at the bearing damage, I would definitely say that the engine will have to come out for the crankshaft to be removed and reground (if you are lucky)…………… the damage to the crank will be significant and may be beyond repair. Please move the big end bearing caps from No 1 and/or No4 and give us a pic of the bearing shells. BE SURE TO MARK ALL REMOVED CAPS AND BEARINGS TO ENSURE THAT THERE POSITION AND ORIENTATION IS KNOWN …………… Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Looking at the state of that shell, I would lay money on the journal being damaged. Egg-shaped perhaps, like BBC's midriff Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Thanks for clearing those thigns up. I've got more pics here. I took the No.2 piston out since it was half out anyway. The inside surface of the con rod big end is all scored but no chunks missing. On the crank shaft, where the big end attaches, the diamiter is an even 58mm but on the next big end (undamaged) its 58.5mm Is this half mm a huge problem or will the new big end shells compensate for this difference? Also the the surface on the crank shaft is scored like the con rod is. Looking down from the top through the No.2 cylinder you can see a little bit of wear on the front bottom edge of the cylinder lining where the piston was being pushed slightly in the wrong direction by the broken shell. The picture of the big end half shell is from the next undammaged bigend. I dont know if its significant but you can see a spot in the middle where its worn down to copper. Is this a sign of somthing that is what caused No. 2 to fail? With the No.2 piston removed the engine now turns very easily by hand as it should do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 More pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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