CD player

[Guest otchie1]

There is no grey area when it comes to downloading music. Downloading music you have paid for is legal in the UK. Downloading music the artist or the artists record label has told you is free is also legal, but only because you have been given permission by the owner to do so. But downloading anything else is illegal and stealing. All peer to peer stuff (such as bit torrents) is stealing as you haven't paid the artist anything but you have taken possession of the product. You wouldn't walk into a shop and take a CD without paying for it would you?

Oh so very grey really.

Downloading a format that you don't have of a track that you do have a legal license for has never been prosecuted and will probably become decriminalised shortly; that covers getting the mp3 version of your CD collection. Any uploading whilst in the process of downloading IS illegal which is where the gnutella sharers etal come unstuck. It is much safer to simply rip your own CDs and the BPI have stated that they will not prosecute for this behaviour.

The American RIAA were once fond of emailing music sharing sites that weren't even in the USA are demanding compliance with USA law.

The law of certain European countries is markedly different from that of the US as Pirate Bay for instance delight in pointing out

The 2003 UK/US extradition treaty allows for you to be arrested and extradited to the US for any offence punishable by at least 1 year inside which includes copyright violation.

However, and feel free to be sick here, the US Government have defined online music sharing as being within their broader definition of 'terrorist activity' (soliciting funds and providing material support) which would enable you to disappear to Guantanemo once you get in to US custody.

Probably safer to stick to the Archers

[JSG]

One point to throw in to the discussion is that the XS CD players do come up for sale on ebay / forums as many people upgrade to a fancier unit with built in Sat Nav / DVD players. Try your local dealer too as they sometimes have them from upgrades.

I think they are excellent - don't look too chav and the aux socket is a real plus. One other point is that the single slot CD player will also play MP3 format CDs which means you can record a CD on your computer with 10 albums on it - saves the number of CDs to carry.

The handbook doesn't seem to advertise this and I found out by accident.

[MINESAPINT]

I live in NE England and our local news this morning is featuring a bunch of prosecutions for illegally downloading music! Serious issue I understand with fines running to many thousands of pounds.

Need some clarification of Otchies post.

Any CD,s I legally own I can copy onto other formats (MP3, USB etc) to enable me to listen to them on other devices? True or False?

Does this mean any 8 tracks, cassette tapes & vinyl I legally own I can obtain from other sources as I already own an original.

You will understand what I am getting at. I have already paid performers by buying hundreds of recordings in various forms which I would now like to listen to on other devices. Should I have to pay the performer again?

MINESAPINT

[Top90]

One other point is that the single slot CD player will also play MP3 format CDs which means you can record a CD on your computer with 10 albums on it - saves the number of CDs to carry.

The handbook doesn't seem to advertise this and I found out by accident.

Unfortunately the County CD player without the AUX socket does not seem able to do this, only the XS one.

My old 110 did, after I changed the head unit, but now I'm back to the County spec one the discs don't play.

I will be looking for an XS one as you suggest, looks a lot less out of place than some of the fancy aftermarket stereos.

[SteveBo]

If you're going to spend some money (replacing with an XS head unit), you could use a proper interface e.g. http://ipodcarkitdirect.co.uk/ whcih would provide charging, a holder and some additional controls. There is already a Brodit clip to mount these thinks on the 07 model. Some of them will also give you bluetooth for your phone.

I use the basic (FM) version with my 05 model XS CD player as CDs jump even on tarmac.

As I understand it there current answer to whether you can and can't copy your music is is no: http://www.bmr.org/page/faqs#Question12 but this seems likely to change http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6095612.stm

Personally I work on the basis that if I paid for it I will use it on any player I own but I shouldn't 'borrow' tracks then keep them unless they are expressly marked as free from the record label. I guess if I sell my CDs I should delete my digital copies.

Steve

It seems ridiculous that there isn't a standard well specced piece of kit for all Defenders.

[Guest otchie1]

I live in NE England and our local news this morning is featuring a bunch of prosecutions for illegally downloading music! Serious issue I understand with fines running to many thousands of pounds.

Need some clarification of Otchies post.

Any CD,s I legally own I can copy onto other formats (MP3, USB etc) to enable me to listen to them on other devices? True or False?

Does this mean any 8 tracks, cassette tapes & vinyl I legally own I can obtain from other sources as I already own an original.

You will understand what I am getting at. I have already paid performers by buying hundreds of recordings in various forms which I would now like to listen to on other devices. Should I have to pay the performer again?

MINESAPINT

As the law stands today, copying your legally owned CDs, records, 8-tracks onto anything at all is technically illegal. However, no one has been prosecuted for it as it has been deemed to fall with in 'fair use'. The BPI, who would be the ones pursuing a prosecution, have stated publicly that they will never prosecute for this so long as it is for personal use only and indeed have campaigned to change the law to make it explicitly legal.

'Copying' in this context does not preclude having someone else do it for you so the argument runs that, so long as no uploading goes on, downloading stuff you already have a licence for would be deemed to be within fair use.

The reality is that it's relatively easy for the industry to track and prosecute file sharers (uploaders) but fiendishly troublesome to nab file downloaders as not only are your details transitory but you can't be sure exactly what you are downloading until you've got it.

Finally there is the small matter of back catalogues. UK copyright law provides for a 50 year music copyright duration which allows for music stuff released pre -1958 to be freely copied. The industry are aware that this will shortly come to include the highly profitable 1960s and would rather like it extended to 100 years (a Disney clause).

Still, if 1940s big band music is your thing, download (UK released versions) at will :-)

[JSG]

I tend to copy my CDs for use in the car so that if they get nicked it isn't such a big deal.

[MINESAPINT]

Thanks to everyone for their contributions to this thread. I am now much better informed.

I do have a large number of cassettes & vinyl records which as far as I am aware I would not be able to transfer onto CD. But as I own these legally if I can download them or find someone with the identical album to copy onto CD for me then my copy becomes legal also. It would be wise in these circumstances to keep the original vinyl as proof I guess.

The underlying principle is the fair use policy and if I have paid the artist once I should not expect to have to pay them again for the same work.

Now I understand the above I can also see the loophole. If you purchase second hand records or cassettes you then hold legal copies. You can then download CD's off the net which are considered legal as I do own original copies!

MINESAPINT

[BogMonster]

I do have a large number of cassettes & vinyl records which as far as I am aware I would not be able to transfer onto CD. But as I own these legally if I can download them or find someone with the identical album to copy onto CD for me then my copy becomes legal also. It would be wise in these circumstances to keep the original vinyl as proof I guess.

You can buy a record deck which plugs into a USB port on the computer and allows you to record vinyl into digital form, I think I have seen it advertised by Novatech, no idea how well it works but no reason why it should not.

I don't give a monkeys about whether it is legal to copy music for use in the car, if I bought it as a legit CD or download, I will play it wherever I feel like it as I am not listening to more than one copy at once so it is completely fair in my mind!

[Ex Member]

You could copy your records or tapes to the computer. All that you need to do is run an output from your amp into the sound card and record away. It will take forever, of course......and results vary. Once on the puter, it is quick and easy to make a CD....

But, as stated, CDs are a 1990s thing..... I haven't used records or tapes since the mid 1980s sometime. Did they not stop making them over 10 years ago??

Does this factory unit at least play MP3 CDs?? If not, that is appalling in a modern vehicle..... Can you fit aftermarket. The deck in my 90 has a front USB input. A small portable hard drive holds every album that I own easily.

[bowfinger]

Just to clarify. When I say there is no grey area, I do mean for music you do not already own in the form of a CD, tape or vinyl. I still say if you haven't paid the artist then you don't own it, so are not entitled to do anything with it. If you own the music on CD, tape or vinyl then you can rip it to your mp3 player without fear of the door being kicked in (as otchie1 says it is technically illegal but any record company that tried to prosecute would quite rightly be laughed out of court and told to enter the 21st century). Illegality starts when you give anything you have ripped from your collection to your friends or worse still, sell it on for profit (which is definitely piracy). For a lot of people it is a matter of conscience. A lot of new and struggling bands (mostly unsigned) are forced to get their music out there without asking for payment because there is a whole generation of people that think music should be free. Personally I like to pay for things. As for MINESAPINTS question of whether he can download something that he already owns elsewhere to save from having to rip it himself - I'd say yes you can, as the result is the same as if you ripped it yourself. And we7? Looks legal to me, but do you really want ads at the beginning of all your music?