Serpentine or not...

[need4speed]

Im sitting with a freshly built 4.6 (based on 3.9 block) and im at the stage of fitting timing cover etc. Is it worth my while going with serpentine setup seeing as i'll be going EDIS / MS route?

Does the serpentine system take up more room at the front than normal setup? Im asking this as i'll be looking for as much room as possible at front so i can use a behemoth of a radiator..

[iomlt]

only problem is, if the belt goes then you loos everything , steering cooling etc. The old set up if the power steering belt goes you are still able to carry on all be it without power steering. but there again fitting and adjustment on the serpentine belt is sooooooooooooooooo easy and fast. So a second spare belt you could carry. i'd go with the later set up.

[V8 Freak]

I have serpentine. I have no preferenc over the V belt, it's what's on the engine now.... Both work.

New type oil pump is better off the crank so I'm told.

Regards belt failing, carry one in the truck.. All you need is a 15mm spanner to move the tensioner a bit and your off again. If you are paranoid, carry a spare tensioner.

I've been advised that after 2 years of abuse in water and mud it's wise to replace both and ignore it again for 2 years.

I don't believe there is much difference between the two.. Still manage to hack my hands apart on the fans every time !

Neil

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

There are pros and cons for both.

What is the primary use of the engine / 4x4 going to be used for ?

nige

[need4speed]

50% road 50% pay-and-play.

I wondered if it was easier to change to serpentine seeing as i already have the longer crank (4.6).

Interested to know the pros and cons for each though...

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

50% road 50% pay-and-play.

I wondered if it was easier to change to serpentine seeing as i already have the longer crank (4.6).

Interested to know the pros and cons for each though...

Minefield !

some 3.9s and 4.2a (RRs) still had a dizzy, but the oil pump was crank driven, some have no dizzy and have GEMS Systems, and some of these front ends have no machined entry for a dizzy, these are known as "Interim covers, the later type with no dizzy are known as type 7s, mainly to 4.0 4.6 38A Type engines with No Dizzy at all, Crank on all serps are longer, I fitted a serp type engine of Fridges with a Non Serp front end and its fun and games playing mix 'n match

3.9 4.2 4.0 and 4.6 38A engines have contra rotating water pumps, so beware plumbing vs ord non serp V8s, thor engines (2000+) have a different oil pick up in front cover and needs the ali sump as pipe connects front cover to rear along engine (plain weird !)

Crank driven oil pump shove 45-50psi and they are regarded as stronger, they can be tweaked too via OPR Valve which some tuners do - one I fitted had dual springs in it . Big issue is unless things have chnaged you can't buy gear sets for a serp oil pump, its the entire cover and gears as a set £ss spendy. Serp belts can be a prob in heavy mud / gunge / twigs branch rocks etc ...and belts can easily come off, then everything stops, with old styllee covers then there are seperate belts and things are cheaper alternators etc / oh and gears sets can be bought seperately.

You can convert serp to non serp..... the other way is far far trickier. Frankly there is nothing wrong with a well set up old stylee front end over serp, and in some ways a benifit. For a comp safari type motor nothing in it ...for a mud plugger I'd go non serp,... but its a close call.

Early non serp covers are alsp getting harder to source, you can buy new gears but your stuffed if the oil housung in the cover is tired, its non serviceable

Nige

[need4speed]

Minefield !

some 3.9s and 4.2a (RRs) still had a dizzy, but the oil pump was crank driven, some have no dizzy and have GEMS Systems, and some of these front ends have no machined entry for a dizzy, these are known as "Interim covers, the later type with no dizzy are known as type 7s, mainly to 4.0 4.6 38A Type engines with No Dizzy at all, Crank on all serps are longer, I fitted a serp type engine of Fridges with a Non Serp front end and its fun and games playing mix 'n match

3.9 4.2 4.0 and 4.6 38A engines have contra rotating water pumps, so beware plumbing vs ord non serp V8s, thor engines (2000+) have a different oil pick up in front cover and needs the ali sump as pipe connects front cover to rear along engine (plain weird !)

Crank driven oil pump shove 45-50psi and they are regarded as stronger, they can be tweaked too via OPR Valve which some tuners do - one I fitted had dual springs in it . Big issue is unless things have chnaged you can't buy gear sets for a serp oil pump, its the entire cover and gears as a set £ss spendy. Serp belts can be a prob in heavy mud / gunge / twigs branch rocks etc ...and belts can easily come off, then everything stops, with old styllee covers then there are seperate belts and things are cheaper alternators etc / oh and gears sets can be bought seperately.

You can convert serp to non serp..... the other way is far far trickier. Frankly there is nothing wrong with a well set up old stylee front end over serp, and in some ways a benifit. For a comp safari type motor nothing in it ...for a mud plugger I'd go non serp,... but its a close call.

Early non serp covers are alsp getting harder to source, you can buy new gears but your stuffed if the oil housung in the cover is tired, its non serviceable

Nige

By the sounds of things i'll stick to the old type as im pretty sure i can lay my hands on an old-style cover. Do i need some kind of spacer or something to take up the extra length of the 4.6 crank?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

By the sounds of things i'll stick to the old type as im pretty sure i can lay my hands on an old-style cover. Do i need some kind of spacer or something to take up the extra length of the 4.6 crank?

Yep

You'll need a spacer from RPI this then puts the crank pulley in the right position.

When you get your front end check the pump housing for damage, and if ok fit new gears, but make sure you get the water pump, alternator and ali bracket PAS pump and bracket Waterpump pulley crank pulley etc etc etc all from the same motor, you'll be amaazed how many variants there are

Nige

[need4speed]

thanks for the info nige. i'll try my best to get the lot from the same engine although that might prove tricky....

[FridgeFreezer]

I bought a gash 3.5 engine for £50 with all the ancillaries.

Not much to choose between either really, it's easier to mount the trigger wheel on the V-belt as the trigger-wheels laser cut wheel bolts on.

[need4speed]

...it's easier to mount the trigger wheel on the V-belt as the trigger-wheels laser cut wheel bolts on.

Good point there...

[Steve 90]

mmmm, just trying to mount the ZF74 P.A.S pump on the front of my 4.2 (out of an LSE) and there's a few issues, Partly with the feed pipe (reservoir - pump) is going to end up close to the exhaust manifold which I really don't want. I could just look into mounting it else where but first I though id look into a serp front end as I believe the ZF74 will bolt straight into the original PAS pump mount.

Reading through this makes me think it might not be straight forward.

Anybody know if its possible with the LSE motor? Is the front of the crank long enough? Is there a front cover available that will fit?

Any help/advise appreciated.

Cheers.

Steve.

[paul stage1v8]

.

Anybody know if its possible with the LSE motor? Is the front of the crank long enough? Is there a front cover available that will fit?

Any help/advise appreciated.

Cheers.

Steve.

The interim front cover from a 3.9 disco, 94, 95 will fit with the shorter crank nose, thats what my 3.9 is, the crank pulley is shorter than the vee belt type. The only problem is the interim motors which had the shorter length crank nose did have a longer keyway to drive the oil pump, so you will need to lengthen the keyway.