Recommended Fluids

[Jaroslav]

Hi all,

It seems that here in Canada they don't sell the fluids that my user manual recommends. There is a lot of stuff, but it's all not exactly the same as in the book. So far I've been to Canadian Tire and Wal-Mart, but I suspect what they sell is probably representative of the local market. Well, the truck (and the book) are 21 year old, so maybe the brands they are referring to do not even exist anymore.

My truck is 110, 1987. I just bought it and my plan is to replace all fluids, filters, grease whatever I can reach etc. I do not drive it in winter, so -10C to +35C temperature range is probably enough.

Anyway, I would greatly appreciate if somebody could confirm that I am not doing something silly:

Engine (Diesel, 2.5L NA): the book recommends Castrol GTX 15W/50, “Castrol Deusol RX Super 15W-40”, “Castolite 10W-40” and a whole bunch of others.

What is available here is “Castrol GTX, Diesel, 15W-40” and “Shell Rotella T 15W/40”. Close, but not exactly the same. I am not sure if using 15W-40 instead of 15W-50, is acceptable.

Gearbox (LT77): the only familiar brand name I saw was “Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle ATF”. The book recommends “Castrol TQF”, “Mobil ATF 210”, “Shell Donax TF”.

Transfer box and differentials: we have “Castrol HYPOY C, 80W-90” here, but book recommends “Castrol HYPOY SAE 90EP”, “Mobile Mobilube HD 90” and others. What’s the key attribute here – the “90”?

Brake fluid: the book says that I need FMVS 116 DOT 3 compliant fluid having a min boiling point of 260C (500F), but according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_3, only DOT 5, which is silicone-based, has these characteristics. Now I am really confused

Grease: of the mentioned brand names I could only find “Castrol MP Grease”, while the book mentions “Castrol LM Grease”. Don’t know if it’s the same… I am probably being ridiculous at this point.

Dextragrease Super GP. The book says I need it for the ball joint assembly, top link. Haven’t seen anything like that.

Thank you in advance,

/Jaroslav

[TheHarv]

Don't use DOT5 brake fluid - it is silicone-based. You can use DOT5.1 but DOT3 or DOT4 is fine - I just grab the Prestone DOT4 sold in Canadian Tire.

my 2c (Canadian cents, of course):

- 15W-40 is fine, you don't need 15W-50 in this climate, fyi the Rotella goes on sale at CT quite often

- gearbox is probably the trickiest one, after some deliberation I am using Redline MTL, this seems like the best fit of the available North American fluids

- I have the Castrol 80W-90 Hypoy in my diffs, but for the transfer box I got extravagant and went with Redline Shockproof. The Castrol Hypoy is EP iirc.

- for wheel bearings, drop arm ball joint etc I use the Lucas 'Red 'n' Tacky' also available from CT

[Jaroslav]

Hi Harv, thanks for the reply!

Don't use DOT5 brake fluid - it is silicone-based. You can use DOT5.1 but DOT3 or DOT4 is fine - I just grab the Prestone DOT4 sold in Canadian Tire.

Well, DOT 4 does not provide the minimal boiling point of 260C (500F). Perhaps it's just a mistake and they meant DOT3 or even DOT5.1?

- gearbox is probably the trickiest one, after some deliberation I am using Redline MTL, this seems like the best fit of the available North American fluids

Is it based on somebody's recommendation? I do want to use the best materials, because nobody pays me to do this job, so whatever I do I want it to last. I am concerned that just going with the most expensive stuff could be counter productive. I could be wrong, but I think most of "exotic" oils market is directed towards high-speed/power racing stuff, whereas my goal is longevity. I ain't gonna street-race in my Defender.

- I have the Castrol 80W-90 Hypoy in my diffs, but for the transfer box I got extravagant and went with Redline Shockproof.

Redline is offering Synthetic Gear Oil as well: 75W90NS. Can we use synthetics in Land Rovers? I just bought a used BMW and I was shocked to learn that the synthetic oil I have is good for 25,000 km or a full year! As I said, I am looking for longevity first.

Do you just drain the old mineral oil and fill it (engine, diff, whatever) with new synthetic oil? I remember using synthetic oil once on my car and I think they've charged me with "flushing" the engine, which I was told needs to be done before you put the synthetic stuff.

Would be interesting to hear comments on that.

[Jaroslav]

According to this page http://www.fourfold.org/RoverWeb/OilFAQ.html

Red Line, Shell Rotella w/XLA and Valvoline Turbo beat Castrol on every account in the 15W-40 category. I am not sure what is the price premium though.

[tacr2man]

Redline in your trans will achieve evrything you want and more. Its not cheap but it does the job in extreme conditions when mineral oils and quite a few other synthetics have given up . I use it in all of the trans on my 110cswV8 eg diffs gearbox, and transfer box . it helps the gearboxs in defenders last a lot longer in OZ (V hot) .

In the engine its more debatable if you need the xpense of redline, as changing at spec intervals , will give you all the protection you need allowing turbo to cool for a couple of minutes if worked hard will be of more impact.

There is no need to flush, just a moneyspinner for workshops. Shockproof is good for trans fer box, esp if you dont have modded mainshaft and gear.

Syntethic redline in diffs good if you do wading , as will still lubricate with water contamination, as mixes mechanically not chemicaly if you let sit water can bel decanted off.

Usual disclaimer no connection with redline etc HTSH JMHO

ps just noticed n/a so no turbo worries just go as said normal oil and change

[TheHarv]

Well, DOT 4 does not provide the minimal boiling point of 260C (500F). Perhaps it's just a mistake and they meant DOT3 or even DOT5.1?

Well I doubt you'll boil DOT4, but if you really want a higher dry BP there is 'Ford spec' DOT3 (beloved of the motorsports crowd) - also available from Canadian Tire and good for (?) 550F. However iirc it is more hygroscopic i.e. will require more frequent changing, which it sounds like you don't want. You don't get anything for free.

Is it based on somebody's recommendation? I do want to use the best materials, because nobody pays me to do this job, so whatever I do I want it to last. I am concerned that just going with the most expensive stuff could be counter productive. I could be wrong, but I think most of "exotic" oils market is directed towards high-speed/power racing stuff, whereas my goal is longevity. I ain't gonna street-race in my Defender.

No personal recommendation, but I based it on my understanding of the latest Rover / Texaco MTF94 spec. Here is a thread on Pirate4x4, google should get you more hits if you want to do your own research.

Redline is offering Synthetic Gear Oil as well: 75W90NS. Can we use synthetics in Land Rovers? I just bought a used BMW and I was shocked to learn that the synthetic oil I have is good for 25,000 km or a full year! As I said, I am looking for longevity first.

You can use any oil meeting or exceeding the spec. The two Redline fluids I mentioned for the gearbox / transfer box are both full synthetic. I think the Lightweight shockproof is a more appropriate substitute for EP90 than either their 75W90 or 75W90NS.

I would not recommend stretching the engine oil change interval ('OCI') on a non-turbo diesel if you decide to use a synthetic oil. In a high performance gasoline / turbocharged application OCI is primarily determined by how long the oil can go before it 'shears' down to a lower viscosity, and synthetics generally help with that. The Rover NA D barely gets warm enough to shear syrup, the oil changes are more about cleanliness (removing particulates). Regular changes with regular mineral oil will be better IMO.

There are many wiser heads than mine, I'm sure the OVLR guys can set you straight, most of them have been running Rovers far longer than me.

[BrettS]

In the engine use the Shell Rotella T 15W/40. Seems to be a good oil and the one I see recommended most often for diesels here in Canada. Walmart sells it in bigger 9L jugs or 20L pails. Used this all last year and through the winter in my 2.5 NA. Using it in the 300Tdi now.

I believe the oil recommendation for the LT77 and R380 are different with the LT77 requiring ATF and the R380 a MTF. Like John, I use the Redline MTL in my R380. Canadian Tire carries some of the Red Line stuff but I had to get the MTL at a nearby speed shop.

Transfer box and front and rear axles, use the Castrol Hypoy C 80W-90 gear oil, also at Walmart.

For the wheel bearings I just use high pressure w/b grease available at Canadian tire. Good for the U-joints as well. The last tub I bought was Lucas Heavy Duty wheel bearing grease.

On the Series trucks, you are not supposed to use the North American brake fluids. It is not compatible with the English rubber. Silicone-based fluids are supposed to be ok but you need to start with all new seals, at least that is what I have read. Having said that, most folks over here use Castrol GT LMA brake fluid in there Series trucks. It's what I have used for the brakes and clutch systems for the last 24 years on mine. Exceeds DOT 3 and 4 requirements.

I don't know if the NA spec fluids will harm the rubber in the later trucks, but I am using the Castrol in my 110 too. And the only place I can find it is at Zellers.

Brett

[western]

R380 gearbox runs fine on ATF too, but the later MTF94 is better for it.

[Jaroslav]

Thank a lot for the help! I am going to summarize all the recommendations:

Engine - Shell Rotella T 15W/40 (an NA Diesel doesn't need synthetic; regular changes to remove grit are more important)

LT77 - Red Line Synthetic ATF, if I can find it here

Transfer box & diffs - Castrol Hypoy C, 80W-90 or Redline Shockproof Gear Oil, when feel fancy

Brake fluid - Castrol GT LMA Brake Fluid (less than 500F, but is less water absorbent)

Grease - Lucas X-tra Heavy Duty Grease (because outlasts lithium grease 4 times)

One thing I don't get. If I use the truck only occasionally, i.e. make less than 5000 km a year, should I still replace the oils regularly? I understand that brake fluid needs to be replaced because it ages, but what about engine and gear oils? Do they age too? Is there any difference between mineral and synthetic oils?

BTW, I have an unrelated question. How do you clean old parts? Back in Russia, 20 years ago, we used to drop old parts in a bucket of diesel fuel to get it clean of dirt and grease. I don't like to use the break cleaner for this purpose because it's very expensive and it stinks.

/Jaroslav

[tacr2man]

engine oil esp if mineral at that low a mileage worth changing yearly, synthetic will last for years not hygroscopic at all .

diesel or kero for parts washing, need to be careful on disposal tho , unless you got a way of recycling for heating etc. not able top advise on canadian eco law sure someone will JMHO

[Jaroslav]

diesel or kero for parts washing, need to be careful on disposal tho , unless you got a way of recycling for heating etc. not able top advise on canadian eco law sure someone will JMHO

So, if nor with diesel or kerosene, how do you wash parts then, using what product?

[Ex Member]

My suggestions

Engine - Esso Extra XD-3 0W-40. Available at Walmart for $23 per 4 liter jug. 10000 km changes or once a year are very conservative.

LT77 - Red Line MTL (not the synthetic ATF)

Transfer box & diffs - Any synthetic or semi-synthtic 75W-90. Lots of choices available, but the Redline is a good price and one of the best. IMO an 80W-90 does not have an adequate temperature range for Canada.

Brake fluid - Any DOT 4 is fine

Grease - I use a synthetic, but it does not matter much. Grease is only used in non-rotating sealed components.

[Ex Member]

Redline is offering Synthetic Gear Oil as well: 75W90NS.

You want the 75W90, not the 75W90NS. "NS" is for limited slip diffs.

[Ex Member]

Well, DOT 4 does not provide the minimal boiling point of 260C (500F). Perhaps it's just a mistake and they meant DOT3 or even DOT5.1?

The Prestone/Valvoline synthetic DOT4 is 260C and available anywhere.

http://www.prestone.com/products/functionalFluids.php

Not that the 260C matters in a Land Rover....

[Jaroslav]

On the Series trucks, you are not supposed to use the North American brake fluids. It is not compatible with the English rubber. Silicone-based fluids are supposed to be ok but you need to start with all new seals, at least that is what I have read. Having said that, most folks over here use Castrol GT LMA brake fluid in there Series trucks. It's what I have used for the brakes and clutch systems for the last 24 years on mine. Exceeds DOT 3 and 4 requirements.

I don't know if the NA spec fluids will harm the rubber in the later trucks, but I am using the Castrol in my 110 too. And the only place I can find it is at Zellers.

This page states that British cars use natural rubber in brakes seals, which necessitates the use of a vegetable-based fluid, and that of all NA brake fluids only Castrol GT LMA is like that.

But other threads, notably this one, seem to be implying that it's, in fact, just an urban legend and that Castrol GT LMA is no different from others and that all break fluids are synthetic.

Here is another long but inconclusive thread on the topic from www.landroversonly.com/forums.

[b50bsa]

You can find out just about anything you need to know about oils, greases, and other fluids, at;

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

Hope the link works, I've not made one before