Geminidawn Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 The following is some text copied and pasted from http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/ind...2054890135.html ________________________________________________________________________________ _____________________ Interceptor16-02-2006, 09:36 A mate of mine who is a mechanic with a busy Galway garage has taken three LPG systems out of cars in the last year - proof of it being pointless if you ask me. If it is a low mileage car and you are looking for a project, why not convert it to run on ethanol and start making the stuff yourself. Alternatively convert it to diesel and run it on biofuel? I saw a 1967 Landrover which was run on old chip fat the other day (very economical, very smelly) 'cptr -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- unkel16-02-2006, 10:16 convert it to run on ethanol and start making the stuff yourself 0% excise duty 0% VAT 0% profits for the fat cat fuel station owner 0% profits for the fat cat oil companies near 0% pollution high octane And if the project doesn't quite work out, you could always add some essence and drink it :cool: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interceptor16-02-2006, 12:08 add some essence and drink it :cool: I'm not sure what the people who sell Smirnoff Ice would think - its pretty much the same thing... I'm sure someone in Mexico has developed a decent home distillery for ethanol - most cars there are set up to run on it. ________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________ Personally I've never heard of any cars being converted to ethanol and I know nothing about it. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 You can convert a petrol car to run on 'E85', a blend of ethanol and 15% petrol. It is slightly cheaper, where you can buy it, than petrol but you need TWICE as much of it to make your car go the same distance. I wonder why it is slow to catch on? In the UK there would be issues with distilling at home without a licence and, I expect, there would be duty payable. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 If you make your own ethanol you can drink it ... hic I believe even in the UK this is legal so long as you don't sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 If you make your own ethanol you can drink it ... hic I believe even in the UK this is legal so long as you don't sell it. I know it is legal to brew ethanol but I have always understood that distilling it without a licence is not legal. Chris I found this link http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/topic.php?id=4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Well here you can distill booze without a licence so long as you don't sell it for profit. Not that I have done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 E85 has got some big benefits in performance cars because it'll run at very high compression ratios - and it's got the potential to be carbon neutral, which decouples us from the oil industry and gives energy security. However, as Chris says it doesn't have the same energy density so you need more of it. Incidentally, the same is true of biodiesel and we're all running 5% bio in our diesel. To convert a petrol engine to E85, I believe you just need to change any hoses and seals that could be attacked by the ethanol content. It's a very common conversion in South America where most of their transport economy is "off-oil". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 There's been a load of discussion around this (both "pure" and E85) on the MegaSquirt forums. Like LPG it has a different calorific value so you don't go as far on a gallon, but it is basically racing fuel and hence you can get some good results out of it Ethanol absorbs water and can disagree with some materials - so as mentioned fuel hoses & seals need to be the correct type, but also you want stainless steel injectors and fuel rail, PRV, and fuel pump that is designed for it. If you have a steel tank it can corrode more quickly, and I believe a water separator in the fuel system isn't a bad idea either, especially if the car sits around for any length of time - although most don't bother and just make sure they don't let it accumulate water. There are mainstream cars in the US that are E85 ready (I think it might even be law in some places, perhaps California as they're always doing that kinda thing) so expect the technology and componets to trickle down soon enough. The only thing that's stopping me is I'm not convinced the manufacturing of the fuel uses any less energy than it produces when you burn it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 You can already buy E85 ready cars in the UK; Ford, SAAB and perhaps Volvo? Apparently they all have a sensor in the fuel system which detects the hydrogen content of the fuel (E85, petrol or a mix) and adjusts fuelling as appropriate. I know that one can also still buy type 2 VW Transporters from Brasil with a 1.4l duel fuel engine. AFAIK this has a carburettor rather than FI so I guess that there is not much 'lec-trickery there. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I would imagine between a wideband lambda sensor and knock sensing the ECU could deduce the type of fuel you're running and alter things to suit, although lots of people say there is a sensor in the fuel system itself I've not looked closely enough to see if that's true yet. The difference is that rather than table switching (as with petrol/LPG) you are mixing the fuel in the tank so you may never run 100% E85 or 100% petrol if you fill up with whatever's available, hence the ECU will have to do a bit more brain work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I know it is legal to brew ethanol but I have always understood that distilling it without a licence is not legal.Chris Please let us know how to make ethanol without distilling it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 A bit off topic Jim, but to BREW ethanol, you take a sugary water solution like the liquor obtained from crushing grapes or boiling malted barley in water or squashing apples etc., add a yeast which produces ethanol and CO2 as a waste product of 'eating' the sugar and keep it warm for a week or so. You then get, in order of listing above; wine, beer or cider. To distil one of these using a still, freeze distilling etc., into spirit (Brandy, whiskey, calvados) would be illegal in the UK without a licence. Obviously making one's own brewed drinks, wine, beer, cider etc. is legal in the UK. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Yes I agree Chris, that you can make ethanol aka wine, beer, cider, etc. But what I really meant was that to make ethanol of a high enough alcohol content to run an engine on it distillation is necessary. I don't think there is any other method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 to make ethanol of a high enough alcohol content to run an engine on it distillation is necessary. I don't think there is any other method. No, making home ethanol production in the UK a non-starter. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Can't you hide in your garden shed and tell the neighbours you are growing geraniums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissDriver Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I saw a 1967 Landrover which was run on old chip fat the other day (very economical, very smelly) Wouldn't this just add to air pollution?? I can imagine this old Landy belching out black smoke - I have no idea what the emissions are like on old chip fat, does anyone else?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Try a forum search or a Google search Cindy. Almost 0 carbon emissions, reduced particulates, etc. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Wouldn't this just add to air pollution?? I can imagine this old Landy belching out black smoke - I have no idea what the emissions are like on old chip fat, does anyone else?? My mate runs 50-50 veg oil that he gets new for 80p a litre from a wholesaler and when we go green laning if I am behind him I get sooooo hungry from the smell of the fat I have to find chips pretty damn quick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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