dannyd Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Hi there, New member here with a slight, well could be quite an expensive problem. I would greatly appreciate any comments or advice on the issue I am having . Ok where do I start…… I have owned my 52 plate Range Rover 4.4 Petrol Vogue for about 6 weeks now and on the whole I totally love it !!! However today I was about three hours into my journey when I needed to accelarate to move round a praked car, as I did apply the throttle the car just revved and did not pull, and as revs dropped it seemed to slip into gear and then accelerate……..It did this once more before I reached my destination…. As I left to return home it did this once more and then seemed ok, until about ten minutes later when it seemed sluggish away from lights…. I realised it was pulling away in what seemed to be third and would not select lower gears and I could not do anything with the manual side of the gearbox either……A little way up road the dash display warned of transmission overheat so I stopped, this was probably due to fact I was leaving the town and it was hilly with lots of pulling away from lights uphill !! I left car for about 35 mins and restarted, she selected first and started to pull when she started slipping before selecting second and doing the same. She then selected third and the message fail safe programme was displayed and the car stayed in third and fourth all way home as I was now on motorway and dual carriageway…… Now I was told could be fluids or could be hydraulic clutches in box gone and had several price scenarios…… I went outside this evening to put car on drive having left it in road to cool down for about 5 hours… Now when started it drove down road fine, changed all gears fine and even drove and selected gears manually fine….. Now surely if clutches were gone ot anything was broke in box would it not be like that all the time and am I right in then hoping this could be down to low fluid that got hot on the long journey and thinned out, that is now probably cooked and will need a change asap to salvage my box ??? Again any advice would be great and apologies for long post PS Car has done 73k with FLRSH and had the dif recall done about two weeks ago Thanks Dan J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie50 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Have you checked the gearbox fluid level? If it's low and smells burned have it changed, not an expert on these but someone on here will be ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I presume this box has electronic control ( ? ), but anyway the symptoms do sound remarkably like those on my 1969 XJ6 when it had low transmission oil, so I would concur and advise checking the fluid level (and quality) as a first line of attack. In the Jag's case, the fluid was also 'burnt' and changing it completely rejuvenated the box (didn't stop it leaking though ) Make sure that you read up on how to check the fluid level for this box, IIRC on the Jag and later on a Saab auto which I have owned, there were differing regimes for checking them, which if not followed resulted in incorrect readings. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyd Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Thanks for the replies and advice.... Now we drained a small amount out of box and the fluid has been burned, also there is a slight hint of metallic substance in the fluid , now I guess you would expect some in the fluid from the box but how much I am not sure. The crazy thing is handbook and Land Rover confirm the box is filled for life and needs no topping up/or and draining and changing !!! Yet they sell the fluid for it snd it is in the region of £11.50 plus VAT a litre !! No one at my two nearest dealers could give me an amout it would hold as they say there is nothing in any books as its filled for life and maintenance free, however a local specialist claims its in the region of 10 litres...... So my predicament (sp) do I spend somewhere in region of £200 on fluid change and take big gamble, or do I put £200 towards £2k I been quoted to build box again ??? What with this and having my header tank split and need replacing within first 6 weeks or so of ownership I am mildly upset with the reliability so far to say the least however it is a fantastic car, when running ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie50 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 One worry being that if the oil smell's burned there must be a reason either overheating due to low level, poor cooling or simple hard work, I'd like to know more about the type of oil, as said Im no expert but that is seriously expensive stuff ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Get down the auto factors and get some correct fluid for it, top it up and then if it behaves, check it after a week or two's driving to see if it's gone burnt again or if it was just low. Autos don't like being low on fluid since even the electronically controlled ones need hydraulic pressure to function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I think that there must be a leak for the fluid to be low - this needs locating and depending on severity/location it may need fixing or maybe you will elect to just keep topping up the fluid.. This may also affect your 'rebuild or not' decision. Not sure whether it could leak into the transfer box? Anyone? Also check the gearbox breather - I have heard of an overheating box blowing fluid out of the breather, but it probably depends on the make/model, but if it has been abused by a previous owner then that may be the cause of the low fluid. Low fluid causes: Overheating and brake-band damage which puts brake-band material and small metal 'sparkles' in the fluid. Burning of the fluid and loss of it's slip-grip-lubrication properties Blocking of the filter and myriad tiny control valves and consequential changing problems and reduced flow everywhere including to the cooler so more overheating. round and round the cycle we go. The fact that once cool it appears to work normally would appear to me to indicate that it's not too damaged and would be worth an fluid-change. Another note of caution: Although the ten litres sounds reasonable, this may be the fill-from-empty amount. When you drain/refill an auto-box in situ, a significant amount of fluid stays in the torque converter. It is vitally important that you fill it to the level on the dip-stick and not by just pouring the stuff in. Do not overfill it! IIRC (it was twenty years ago) with the Jag it said 16 pints and it only took 10 or 12. Best of luck with it Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Hi, if you have got burned or contaminated oil in your box it will not drain out of the torque converter or transfer box unless it is pumped out by running the gearbox in neutral. If you do this you will discharge almost all of the fluid. Suggest you then add some cheapest fluid and pump this thro to flush out as much as possible. When you then refill it will take the full amount but you will have to run the gearbox between to fully fill the torque converter and transfer box. Your box will probably not have a dipstick as it was deleted on later models, there is a plug on the side of the gearbox to fill it. Dont just fill up to the plug and leave it, the box will suck in lots more which could be the reason why the problem happened in the first place when it was serviced by an inexperienced tech. See a good FAQ help list on Ashcroft transmissions website, this will tell you how to do it. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyd Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Thanks again for the replies..... The concerns I have are that the box is apparently "filled for life" so should according to Land Rover does not need to be drained and refilled ? The fluid was cooked when I tried to get her home, as I left town it was hilly and think all the stop start at lights/junctions upset her considerably as trying to pull away on incline in third gear is responsible for ther overheated transmission......... Another point....there is no dipstick as these boxes are not meant to need fluids............. It can be done but at present I do not actually know if the fluid is low or not.......and I guess I do not just want to add good fluid to cooked fluid so I will need to empty the whole lot and if some stays in the transfer box wont this technically be knackered from the cooking and mix and contaminate the new fluid ?? Thanks Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Thanks again for the replies.....The concerns I have are that the box is apparently "filled for life" so should according to Land Rover does not need to be drained and refilled ? The fluid was cooked when I tried to get her home, as I left town it was hilly and think all the stop start at lights/junctions upset her considerably as trying to pull away on incline in third gear is responsible for ther overheated transmission......... Another point....there is no dipstick as these boxes are not meant to need fluids............. It can be done but at present I do not actually know if the fluid is low or not.......and I guess I do not just want to add good fluid to cooked fluid so I will need to empty the whole lot and if some stays in the transfer box wont this technically be knackered from the cooking and mix and contaminate the new fluid ?? Thanks Dan There may be a small leak so that knocks the sealed for life argument and a service tech would not even look at the level so it may have been low for a long time. I agree with Reg above that a drain and flush would be the way to go. Do you have the specification for that ubber expensive auto fluid as I'm sure you can get it cheaper at an auto factors? I would contact Ashcroft and have a chat. I can think of no better source of knowledge and ultimately replacement 'box if it comes to it. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparg Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Thanks again for the replies.....The concerns I have are that the box is apparently "filled for life" so should according to Land Rover does not need to be drained and refilled ? The fluid was cooked when I tried to get her home, as I left town it was hilly and think all the stop start at lights/junctions upset her considerably as trying to pull away on incline in third gear is responsible for ther overheated transmission......... Another point....there is no dipstick as these boxes are not meant to need fluids............. It can be done but at present I do not actually know if the fluid is low or not.......and I guess I do not just want to add good fluid to cooked fluid so I will need to empty the whole lot and if some stays in the transfer box wont this technically be knackered from the cooking and mix and contaminate the new fluid ?? Thanks Dan not great news, tis - filled for life boxes rarely really are. and box going into "safe" mode doesn't sound good. Had this recently and... new box (jag). reason for disparity of fluid levels: torque converter - doesn't drain unless box is off and tipped up. box without dipstick = almost impossible to check proper fluid level. I've a nasty feeling you might need a replacement box. fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyd Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Spoke to Ashcrofts....and a few others......All with same outcome..............New box/rebuild time..................... Gone in today..£2365 all in for rebuild with usual guarantees/warranty etc........The garage in questiuon came recommended by Mansfield 4x4 and my local Range Rover Stealer as well as my local BMW Stealer as I also priced fluids from them .................... Oh well not bad in a couple of months ownership...New Header Tank and now Rebuild of Gearbox !! Still hopefully when I get it back it may last a while...............But tbh my faith is somewhat dented now............. Thanks for all the replies anyhow..........great to have some input from other members... Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 How does it come out to nearly £2500 ? The most expensive recon gearbox from Ashcrofts is £850, so assume £1000 for a rebuilt gerabox where does the extra money come from ? Just curious. Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyd Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 How does it come out to nearly £2500 ? The most expensive recon gearbox from Ashcrofts is £850, so assume £1000 for a rebuilt gerabox where does the extra money come from ? Just curious.Ivan We are on the same ball park here ?? Its a L322 model, the bmw 4.4 engine`d one..............Ashcrofts quoted over 2k for rebuild as the torque converter is apparently £900 alone and the fluids are over £125 ish Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKP Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 It's a relatively new BMW unit so prices will stll be high, coupled with the remove/refit labour I'd say £2.5k is about right. Although the boxes do have the 'Sealed For Life' legend, they all benefit from having their fluid and filter changed every couple of years. The procedure is listed on another popular Range Rover forum/website and is a fairly long winded process as there is no dipstick under the bonnet to check levels etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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