Joseph Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hi all, my 97 Disco broke and after much investigation on my driveway it turns out my rear differential has seized. I have a rear diff from a junkyard lined up but I cant get the cover plate off the one still on my car. I plan on replacing just the gears rather than the whole rear axle. I know i have to remove the flange but i cant do it... I assume you remove the pin with a special tool but i heard you could do it without the tool. I also heard you could just pull it off with some force but thats not working for me. Anyone know? Thanks, -Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Is it just that the nuts are seized on the diff?? IIRC its (in theory) an easy proceedure, remove/ withdraw halfshafts, remove prop (4 bolts) and 'doughnut', undo (using breaker bar probably) the bolts on the diff. Lower very heavy diff to ground. replace reverse as above. I think it may wise to renew the doughnut, as these wear in the 300's and can ultimatley destroy the diff. Special Tools: LR tool 1 = Hammer LR tool 2 = Stilsons. Plasters and bandages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hi Joseph and welcome to the forum Any chance you could post up a pic so we know what we're talking about? Your disco is newer then mine but this doesn't sounds anything like my rover diff (pumpkin/third member) which has no cover plate. Failing hat I'm sure there are others here with better knowledge then me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 I have very limited knowledge but as you can see from the picture i have removed the driveshaft and removed all the nuts around the differential case. It still would not come off so i assume i have to remove the flange (trangular part at the front where the driveshaft connects). It will not pull off, and im not sure what to do. Also i dont know if i have to pull out the pin in front of it, and if so... how? Also, i meant that the gears inside the diff are seized.. or so i think but i ont know unless i can open it up. My rover drags his rear end if i try to drive him and its not the Transfer Case or the Transmission. More images are available here http://70.187.217.161:5222/rover/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 It should come out like that, if you have taken the 2 halfshafts out of each side? It is probably in with RTV or similar gasket sealant so it may just be "stuck" to the axle casing, you may need to prise it off with a big screwdriver but you don't need to do anything else to the diff itself - it will come out as a unit complete with that flange attached. You say it "drags the rear end" are you sure the handbrake isn't just seized on?? If you try to drive it with the rear propshaft off (as in your photo) can you move it then? If so, it will be the handbrake seized on. I'd be surprised if the rear diff has seized completely, I can't recall ever hearing of a total diff seizure happening before, or if it does it is usually accompanied by a big bang, a hole in the back of the axle casing and a lot of gears making a bid for freedom The reason I mention the handbrake is that I once got a call out to somebody with a "broken rear diff" parked on top of a mountain, and when we got there we found the handbrake was seized on and so it would drag the rear wheels when you tried to drive it forwards, because the jammed handbrake was forcing all the power through the centre diff to the front wheels. Turned out to be frozen on, and we "fixed" it by engaging 1st low range difflock giving it about 4000rpm and dropping the clutch, one almighty bang later and we were on our way with hindsight it was probably quite lucky not to break anything but it was a horizontal blizzard at the time and I wasn't messing around, plus it was one of our own vehicles anyway. I don't recommend you try the technique, but it's worth investigating the handbrake to rule it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 I thought of the handbrake problem so I took it off completely and tried it to no avail. I also completely jacked up the rear of the car till both rear wheels did not touch ground I spun one, making the other spin in reverse as it should, but then i got under the car and tried to turn the prop (triangular thing pictured above) without the driveshaft on just to see if it would turn the wheels, and it was stuck. this all bipasses the handbrake and other gearboxes so it must be the differential. As for opening it up, i did not remove the halfshafts... I dont know how i would do that with only one jack in my driveway. Any suggestions? thanks, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 As Bogbuster, it's most likely stuck due to the halfshafts in situ. You dont need to jack it up or remove the wheels, remove the hub caps on both wheels, here you will find the ends of the halfshalfts. I cant remember if it's a castle nut or circlip, but, take that off, withdraw the half shafts a trifle, so you feel them clonk out of the diff, hey presto - diff should come away easy. Mind you: I also completely jacked up the rear of the car till both rear wheels did not touch ground I spun one, making the other spin in reverse as it should This should mean that the diff is not seized. Two half shalfts, wheel turns diff, diff turns other wheel. Its a damn site harder to manually turn the wheels by hand from the small mechanical (dis)advantage from the driveshaft. mmmmm...... I think bogbuster has a good point regards handbrake. (He always does! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 Thanks for all youre help. I will recheck the handbrake by simply removing it before i proceede further with the differential. Ill keep you all posted. I thought I had tried driving it with the drumbrake off completely, but i could be mistaken. Thanks again, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Joe, pics are good. Yes looks like mine. While you;ve got the rear prop shaft off just try driving it and see if the rear axle still drags. If not then we can look at the handbrake, and if it does then lets try pulling the drive shafts from the rear axle to get that diff out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 If it has alloy wheels fitted you won't get the halfshafts out without removing the wheels but there is no reason why you can't jack up one side, remove wheel, remove the drive member and take the halfshaft right out, and refit wheel with a couple of nuts, then let it down and do the other side. If you have steel wheels you can take the shafts out, on a Discovery the rear shafts are most likely to be one-piece with the integral drive member so there will be no little black plastic hub cap, just take out the 5 drive member bolts and it'll come out, no need to remove wheels. You won't get the diff out without the halfshafts coming out though, not possible! If the diff pinion won't turn with the propshaft off and a wheel jacked up then you might well have a problem - most likely the pinion bearing will have collapsed or seized, but that usually makes pretty horrible noises before getting bad enough to drag wheels! If you get underneath and grab hold of the pinion can you move it up and down or side to side to see if there is any play in the bearings? Just out of interest what happens if you jack up only one side (with the halfshafts still in) and try and turn the wheel with the propshaft disconnected - does the diff pinion turn then? If you can't turn the wheel there is definitely a problem within, with either the pinion bearings or the main bearings that support the crownwheel and diff centre. Was there oil in the diff, did you drain it yet, and if you did what came out - clean oil, gungy filth, metal swarf, teeth ... ? all clues as to possible problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 quick update: I removed the drum parking brake and the rear axel and put the car in neutral with diff lock off and i cannot push the car... the rear wheels are still locking up... gonna look inside diff tomorrow. I will tryyour suggestions starting with the easiest tomorrow, but for youre amusement, only one drop of oil came out of the rear diff when i tried to drain it, which is a big clue that there is potential for a big problem. anyhow, im off to class, i really appreciate the help. Ill post again in the morning. -Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I have very limited knowledge but as you can see from the picture i have removed the driveshaft and removed all the nuts around the differential case. It still would not come off so i assume i have to remove the flange (trangular part at the front where the driveshaft connects). It will not pull off, and im not sure what to do. Also i dont know if i have to pull out the pin in front of it, and if so... how? Also, i meant that the gears inside the diff are seized.. or so i think but i ont know unless i can open it up. My rover drags his rear end if i try to drive him and its not the Transfer Case or the Transmission. More images are available here http://70.187.217.161:5222/rover/ Joseph the pin in your pic is removed with a slide hammer after heating around it as it is loctited in, the nut for the pinion flange is underneath. you can also draw the pin out if you can make up a pulling device, I used a 52mm socket witha bolt down the middle into the pin (after heating it) to draw it out. see HERE for a pictorial guide to removing a diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Yeeeeees, no oil would be bad if there was nothing at all it is probably completely F'ed therefore remove halfshafts and take it out as previously described. I expect it will be a bit blue around the edges No point in removing the flange from the pinion if you have a complete replacement diff as if it has been running with no oil at all the chances are it'll be completely shot and fit only for a doorstop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Yes I am quite sure it is the rear diff now. I left one wheel down and lifted the other and i cant turn it for the life of me... isnt that suppose to turn the drive shaft prop? Oh and youre not going to believe this but i am finding it impossible to remove these little decorative caps over the nuts keeping my wheels on. I dont care if i have to break them off... any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imspanners Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Yes I am quite sure it is the rear diff now. I left one wheel down and lifted the other and i cant turn it for the life of me... isnt that suppose to turn the drive shaft prop?Oh and youre not going to believe this but i am finding it impossible to remove these little decorative caps over the nuts keeping my wheels on. I dont care if i have to break them off... any ideas? I think somebody is pulling your legs!!! However, if you ARE serious. The metal caps on the wheel nuts stay there. They DO NOT come off! Just tap the socket onto the wheel nuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Thanks to you all I got the diff out today and sure enough its locked up. Boght a new one off a local rover guy for 150 and it should be her monday or so... Ill let you know how it goes. Thanks again. -Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Boght a new one off a local rover guy for 150 and it should be her monday or so... I hope that for £150 it is a new one & not S/H from a scrapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 £150 for a new diff? More like £1050 I think you'll find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 No i bought a used one from a pretty straightforward guy. $150.00 US dollars... with a credit card of course. He runs a land rover only scrapyard and repair here in Virginia. Had a good talk with him, he owns 3 rovers himself but i think he only does local. So long as it works, i dont need a brand new one. If all goes well, ill probably buy a lot more from him. -joe By the way, It was the bearing at the front of the differential that jumped the track and broke, locking it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 I replaced the rear diff a few days ago and its up and running, but now the diff is leaking oil out of the flange assembly where the driveshaft connects. Anyone know a common leakpoint or gasket i need to replace? Thanks, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The diff pinion seal and maybe the flange as well, if the flange is scored. Not too difficult to do AFAIK (never done one myself) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 ok thanks, is the pinion seal the same as the hub seal or the same as the pinion bearing seal? and do i have to drain the oil out of the diff for replacement? Thanks, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Joe, is it leaking from behind the flange shown in this pic? If so its the pinion seal that will need replacing as Bugbuster has said above. No need to drain oil but you will need to pull the flange off (see White90's instructions above). Prise out seal, fit new and refit flange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Bugbuster Oi!! cheeky git Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Sorry Steve, my dislexic fingers again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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