Series 3 Brake Questions

[beko1987]

Got up nice and early to have a good day on my truck, borrowed a jack and set to work with the brakes. Got the wheel off and after laughing at the rusty appaling condition of the brake drum (I pulled cobwebs and hay out of them!) I attempted to remove the 3 slot headed screws to get inside.

They are seized solid. I gave up pretty quickly, soaked them with wd40 and left them for now. Stepdad says I should find a big slot head screwdriver and hit it with a hammer to loosen the thread, which I'll do tomorrow, but if that doesnt work would it be easier to drill the heads off, remove the studs and buy new screws? I'd need to know the screw size if I did that.

I also fitted the passenger seatbelt and found a storage box under the seat! (gonna build the amp and toolboxes into there I think, and generally tidied the cab up. Attempted to coax some life into the washer jet pump but to no avail, so need a new one of those, cleaned up the drivers side window to a near sparkling shine on the outside, and fitted the new wiper blade.

I pulled the access panel off over the fuel lift pump as well and quickly acetained that I need a new one of those! The earth cable was hanging from a green corroded thread, and the live lead is barely attached as the spade terminal is all but gone. The whole thing just lifted out too as the metal washer was in 6 bits.

Had a quick play with the angle grinder and the chassis, sanding the worst bits down to see how bad it was and was pleasently surprised.

Re-wired the drivers side main beam but it's still dead. It works sometimes though so think it's a case of running new wires around to try and breathe life into it. Managed to kill a sidelight too by taking it apart (when will I learn!) It's an addition to the wings, as the hole is very bogily drilled out, and it was super rusty, hence how I broke it, it just crumbled away. Was going to buy new side and tail lights all round at some point though so no biggie. The indicators look original though, as they have glass lenses. If I can get them off without breaking them I'll definatly try and keep them for fun.

And the radiator isn't leaking! There's a hole in on of the rubber pipes by the engine, so that's 9p spent on some new piping. Got told off for it though, as to find the leak I started her up, couldnt see anything so planted my foot to get it roaring. Then mum came out and told me to be quiet. Found the leak though!

Took one of the inspection panel off the transfer box too, and it looks mint and shiny inside, so that looks hopefull, just needs some fecking oil in it, the engine parts that I can see inside look bone dry.

Will take some pictures tomorrow and upload them.

Cheers

[beko1987]

I really should look before I post! Just found white 90's guide in the tech archive. So that's that one answered, although I'm sure I'll get it off and have to get the laptop to post all the other questions I uncover!

Got up nice and early to have a good day on my truck, borrowed a jack and set to work with the brakes. Got the wheel off and after laughing at the rusty appaling condition of the brake drum (I pulled cobwebs and hay out of them!) I attempted to remove the 3 slot headed screws to get inside.

They are seized solid. I gave up pretty quickly, soaked them with wd40 and left them for now. Stepdad says I should find a big slot head screwdriver and hit it with a hammer to loosen the thread, which I'll do tomorrow, but if that doesnt work would it be easier to drill the heads off, remove the studs and buy new screws? I'd need to know the screw size if I did that.

I also fitted the passenger seatbelt and found a storage box under the seat! (gonna build the amp and toolboxes into there I think, and generally tidied the cab up. Attempted to coax some life into the washer jet pump but to no avail, so need a new one of those, cleaned up the drivers side window to a near sparkling shine on the outside, and fitted the new wiper blade.

I pulled the access panel off over the fuel lift pump as well and quickly acetained that I need a new one of those! The earth cable was hanging from a green corroded thread, and the live lead is barely attached as the spade terminal is all but gone. The whole thing just lifted out too as the metal washer was in 6 bits.

Had a quick play with the angle grinder and the chassis, sanding the worst bits down to see how bad it was and was pleasently surprised.

Re-wired the drivers side main beam but it's still dead. It works sometimes though so think it's a case of running new wires around to try and breathe life into it. Managed to kill a sidelight too by taking it apart (when will I learn!) It's an addition to the wings, as the hole is very bogily drilled out, and it was super rusty, hence how I broke it, it just crumbled away. Was going to buy new side and tail lights all round at some point though so no biggie. The indicators look original though, as they have glass lenses. If I can get them off without breaking them I'll definatly try and keep them for fun.

And the radiator isn't leaking! There's a hole in on of the rubber pipes by the engine, so that's 9p spent on some new piping. Got told off for it though, as to find the leak I started her up, couldnt see anything so planted my foot to get it roaring. Then mum came out and told me to be quiet. Found the leak though!

Took one of the inspection panel off the transfer box too, and it looks mint and shiny inside, so that looks hopefull, just needs some fecking oil in it, the engine parts that I can see inside look bone dry.

Will take some pictures tomorrow and upload them.

Cheers

[secondjeremy]

I find an impact screwdriver very useful for removing stubborn drum screws - fit it up, hit with large hammer - screw loose!

Its much easier and more successful than using a hammer and punch.

Example of the tool I mean here:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/...driver-se/path/

[beko1987]

In the end I found hte biggest driver I could find and belted it, then drilled a hole in the handle and used another screwdriver to turn it and they came out.

Then I spent 4 hours trying to get the cover off to no avail, it's stuck on there fast. Anyone know why that would be? Going to have another g on Friday if I work out how to take it off.

Otherwise I finished fitting the seatbelts, and whilst both seats were out to look at the floor panels and the panels under the seats. I took them all out and scrubbed them with white spirit. I think my transfer box was/is leaking as the whole underside of the vehicle is covered in thick black sludge. I saw a drip come from the drain plug, so need to read up on how to fix that. All the panels are now fitted properly, with all the ones that arent supposed to be moved sealed up with beads of plumbers mate and bolted back down properly, and the access panels are back down, but I'm going to hammerite them black at some point. Going to hand paint the whole inside, can't hurt!

Attempted to fit a 6x9 into it but gave up! If anyone has a template for the bulkhead that they've previously used then that would be lovely! Will have another go now the seatbelts are in and I know what room I've got. Ran the drivers side speaker wire though. Used an old hoover cord as it's only carrying audio (and I'm not an audiophile) and the outer sheath is very thick so can stand up to more abuse. Ran it along the existing wiring that needs re-laying. What I may do is pull them one by one and re-route them along a better route. Should sort out a load of problems. Passed the audio cable up the engine bay, in behind the instrument panel and it's laying on the floor atm.

Does anyone know where I can get a wash/wipe button, the round one? I've got 2 flick switches atm and a redundant wire that I think is the 2nd speed wipe.

Think thats it for now, until Friday!

quote name='secondjeremy' date='Nov 16 2008, 08:22 AM' post='330625']

I find an impact screwdriver very useful for removing stubborn drum screws - fit it up, hit with large hammer - screw loose!

Its much easier and more successful than using a hammer and punch.

Example of the tool I mean here:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/...driver-se/path/

[yellow]

In the end I found hte biggest driver I could find and belted it, then drilled a hole in the handle and used another screwdriver to turn it and they came out.

Good, that's sorted then...

Then I spent 4 hours trying to get the cover off to no avail, it's stuck on there fast. Anyone know why that would be? Going to have another g on Friday if I work out how to take it off.

Did you slacken the shoe adjusters in the back? Otherwise a good application of 'Big F'n Hammer' might do the trick...

[samtope]

Along the lines of the post above, and maybe a silly question, you have'nt got the handbrake on have you?? It sounds as though this drum has already taken quite a beating to release the shoes.. Regarding annoying drips from drain plugs, some people just smear a bit of sealer on the thread of the nut. I used windscreen sealer on my rear diff, no more drips (so far).

[samtope]

Sorry! its a transmission brake isnt it! Forget what I said

[beko1987]

Cheers for trying though!

I thought it was something like that, as the wheel only turned about 4 inches either way before stopping. I didn't try it with the tyre on though, which I've been told was a bit stupid, and I only tried one wheel! Will have a better try on Friday! I started this at half 1, and by half 3 thought I dont want to try another one incase I've got to work through the dark to get the damn thing finished!

Supposing I get the damn thing off, would a good wire brush/wire brush drill bit/glasspapering then paint the whole assembly (not around the brakes) in rust reverser/protector be a good idea? Was thinking of hammeriting the hubs and drum outers eventually for cosmetic purposes and rust prevention purposes. Will smear the contacting metal faces with grease too to help protect them.

It is a case of persevering with Mr. Lump Hammer then is it?!

Sorry! its a transmission brake isnt it! Forget what I said

[sotal]

To take the drums off I do the following:

Remove big screws,

Screw the screws back into the other holes which pulls the drum forward

If the drum gets stuck bash the drum all the way round with a hammer

Screw the screws in further

If it still gets stuck, then back off the snail cam adjuster on the back of the drum

Screw the screw in further

If it's still stuck hit the drum repeatedly all the way round with a bigger hammer and make sure the snail cam adjusters are backed off all the way

eventually it will come off.

If it takes a lot of effort then when you do get them off, check the drums for a lip if it's significant then you will need new ones.

Last time I took mine off, they were dead easy, just wound the screw in and pulled them out - then just pulled it the rest of the way by hand.

[Handy_Andy]

Although If there is only a small lip on the drum, which tends to be a bit rusty I use a bit of sand paper to remove it.

This helps fitting and the next time you remove the drum.

[sotal]

Although If there is only a small lip on the drum, which tends to be a bit rusty I use a bit of sand paper to remove it.

This helps fitting and the next time you remove the drum.

Yep that should be ok if it's just rust but some of the ones I have seen have had a really pronounced lip in the metal, it would need a lathe to remove it, but by this time it's getting out of tolerance so a new one will be needed

[andyb]

Although If there is only a small lip on the drum, which tends to be a bit rusty I use a bit of sand paper to remove it.

This helps fitting and the next time you remove the drum.

I use a flap wheel when servicing all drum brakes.....for the same reason and it 'breaks up' the shiny surface reducing brake squeal.

[beko1987]

Well have had another 2 days on my truck now. Booked yesterday off to get started with the brakes, and promptly foundo ut I've ordered the wrong kit! Ordered the 88" kit, rather than the 109" kit! So need to order the front cylinders and shoes, as the back are the same as the 88" according to the service manual. So truck is sitting feeling sorry for itself as the frint right hand side has no brake cylinder!

So, after giving up on that I had a ruddy good tidy up of the garage and driveway, and made a start on general wiring tasks. I tidied up the battery live going to the work lamp and fog light switches, and ran 2 new lengths of wire down to the back, one for the rh side light switch, as the other one had 2 scotx blox and a butt connector doing absolutly sod all along it;s length, and ran a new wire to the rear rh fog, as the old one wasn't in much better condition. Also overhauled both light assemblies, so no need to add those to the front sidelight order! When the crane gets the chop hopefully next weekend I'll have a look at the crossover cables to the LH lights, can't get to those at the moment.

Wired the wiper motor up properly so I have ON, OFF and PARK, which is nice. In 2 minds wether to get the proper switch for it, as at the moment there are 2 flick switches, one for wash and one for wipe. Will leave it low priority atm.

Need to get new fuses next weekend as well as 1 fell ap[art in my hand after sparking alot, so have no something! (Havent workeed out what it is yet, it's the bottom fuse!). I think the fuses could be the reason for the heater blower not working too, although havent checked the wiring yet. Took the heater matrix apart too, and after cleaning out the HUGE amount of carp that had fallen inside from the dashboard filled it up and soaked the outside in steradent for the day. Didn't look any cleaner when it came out but the water was green and murky so must have done something good. Fitted that all back together but need the big hose that goes from the blower to the matrix. Again, fairly low priority, may even be cheeky and see if a bulk vac hose is any good.

Pinched a load of heat/coolant hose off a mate who replaced them all in his 90 with new stuff 'because it looked better'. Have it all connected up, and ran into a major problem. I filled the rad up until the water sat just ontop of the fins. Fired her up and she ran, and the water went down as the system filled up. Topped the rad up with the engine going and it died. Left it for a few hours, thinking I'd left the choke out too long or something silly, and it fired up, ran fine, I revved it a bit and then spluttered and died. Any ideas? If I take loads of water out the system it runs fine!

Cleaned the windows too, got rid of the ancient LR Magazine sticker and all the overspray paint from the front windscreen, took the passenger window out too, just levered up what was left of the lower seal and ripped it out, and lifted the window out. Will do for now until I get new seals. Used White spirit for the paint removal, then a quick rub with a soapy cloth, quick rinse, then white vinegar and boiling water to clean then a buff afterwards. The wipers work so much better now, just need to get a passenger side arm, as the spring's gone in it and it 'flutters' when moving. Put the tax disk back in a nice small disc holder, as well as the work car park permit for cheeky parking!

Going to try and fit the stereo tomorrow, need to find the ignition live, and work out where the wires go on the stereo itself. Ground I know about, and will run a new length of wire down to somewhere new, possibly where the seatbelt mount is as that's quite strong. Won't use the one I created for the 2 new switches as it doesnt look too capable, only a self tapper into an existing hole in the bulkhead. As for Accessory, no idea where that goes and the battery line I'm also not sure about. When I tidied up and daisy chained the batter live for the 2 switches I added another chain for the radio, but I fear it may be too weak/overload the wire, so may run a new wire down, but no idea how to connect it battery end, apart from i need to buy an inline fuse!

Bit of a blog, but got a lot acheived in 2 days (I think!)

[Reg]

If you are stripping down a brake drum from a "rust heap" try the following when all else fails:

Back off brake adjusters, it is worth soaking these with WD40 so you can feel them move away from the back of the shoes. Stamp on the brake pedal several times (assuming you have some fluid in the system) this will centralise the shoes. Use a pry bar or heavy screwdriver between the backplate and the drum to move the drum whilst hitting the drum with a rubber or copper mallet. A lump hammer could bust the casting. If it is still stuck move to phase 2.

Refit wheel with three nuts, retaining screws omitted. Leave jacked up.

Remove outer wheel bearing by removing split pin, nuts etc.

Now you have a big heavy wheel to jerk and wobble.

Loosen the wheel nuts if necessary, this will act as a slide hammer.

The Hub should slide off with the brake drum and wheel attached, your inner wheel bearing should stay in, but dont do this next to a drain in case it rolls away complete with seal.

The inner seal will now probably be damaged but it will probably be dead anyway.

Wash bearings in solvent and clean out the bits of rust now packed into the spaces.

I find the best solution to the above problem is to make up a complete brake assembly on a spare back plate, in a nice warm workshop, paint it all over fit new cylinder(s) and test asemble shoes and springs, then unbolt the rusty old backplate and fit the reconditioned one.

[beko1987]

Cheers for the replies, still ongoing with this! I've got the new bits 'test fitted' but can't get the springs in position. A friend said to take the whole hub off, retire into the garage and do it that way. How difficult is it to take the hub off, and what part numbers would I need for new seals etc? Seems it would make more sense to assemble everything on the bench, then re-fit as a whole assembly back to the vehicle!

If you are stripping down a brake drum from a "rust heap" try the following when all else fails:

Back off brake adjusters, it is worth soaking these with WD40 so you can feel them move away from the back of the shoes. Stamp on the brake pedal several times (assuming you have some fluid in the system) this will centralise the shoes. Use a pry bar or heavy screwdriver between the backplate and the drum to move the drum whilst hitting the drum with a rubber or copper mallet. A lump hammer could bust the casting. If it is still stuck move to phase 2.

Refit wheel with three nuts, retaining screws omitted. Leave jacked up.

Remove outer wheel bearing by removing split pin, nuts etc.

Now you have a big heavy wheel to jerk and wobble.

Loosen the wheel nuts if necessary, this will act as a slide hammer.

The Hub should slide off with the brake drum and wheel attached, your inner wheel bearing should stay in, but dont do this next to a drain in case it rolls away complete with seal.

The inner seal will now probably be damaged but it will probably be dead anyway.

Wash bearings in solvent and clean out the bits of rust now packed into the spaces.

I find the best solution to the above problem is to make up a complete brake assembly on a spare back plate, in a nice warm workshop, paint it all over fit new cylinder(s) and test asemble shoes and springs, then unbolt the rusty old backplate and fit the reconditioned one.

[TheRecklessEngineer]

There most definitely is a knack to it.

I attach the spring to the hub, put the fixed end of the shoe in position but leave the top out of the cylinder, attach spring to shoe then lever shoe into position on cylinder (Crow bar helps with this). Repeat for other shoe.

Trying to attach the springs to the shoes when in position I have found nearly impossible!

Oh, and wear gloves! If the shoe/spring pings off/traps fingers it hurts!

[beko1987]

There most definitely is a knack to it.

I attach the spring to the hub, put the fixed end of the shoe in position but leave the top out of the cylinder, attach spring to shoe then lever shoe into position on cylinder (Crow bar helps with this). Repeat for other shoe.

Trying to attach the springs to the shoes when in position I have found nearly impossible!

Oh, and wear gloves! If the shoe/spring pings off/traps fingers it hurts!

Yea, that is what i aim to do for the front, but the back, the driveshaft gets in the way of the springs, fiddly horrible job that would be much easier if I could get the backplate off and out of the way. Plus I can work on it after work inside.