Steve Hiatt Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 The Lexus unit has a lot of engine management to configure. Milners use them in their Protruck and I seem to remember them telling me they had 80 wires to find a home for. A Chevy V8 will give you a big grin everytime you drive it at economy very similar to the Rover. As mentioned before, in a mild state of tune you have hp and torque that a Rover can only dream of. Whilst you wouldn't want to run a R380, the rest of the drivetrain improvements of diff and halfshafts you would want whatever engine you had. Personally I prefer the simplicity and price of the older cast iron engines and don't feel that the weight saving justifies the extra cost of an ali block. However they are getting cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 Unless you absolutely HAVE to keep it Rover, or are limited on capacity (due to regulations for example), I just can't see any argument for buying one of these engines, given the alternatives.Al. Al, I now see your point about price. If we all modded a Defender to be the Ultimate off roader and price was not a problem, from the ground up, how much of it would still be Land rover? Not much i would imagine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Lex motors have thier own little probs - the LS400 lump looks really nice on paper but it really doesnt make the bass notes - plenty of push on the top end but thump is sadly lacking As Steve mentions trevor Milner uses then in the pro trucks and they don't seem to be lacking in performace. Maybe they wouldn't be suited to a 'general' off roader, but they seem to go well in a race truck. The Lexus unit has a lot of engine management to configure. Milners use them in their Protruck and I seem to remember them telling me they had 80 wires to find a home for. I was guessing that would be the case with the Lexus lump. Mind you the wiring in the pro truck is a work of art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Accept it, you are what governs your success off road/on road/ mechanically, not the vehicle...That's a controversial theory - you want to keep quiet about that or it'll really upset the chequebook brigade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Al, I now see your point about price. If we all modded a Defender to be the Ultimate off roader and price was not a problem, from the ground up, how much of it would still be Land rover? Not much i would imagine How true... Holy carp - people are agreeing with me??? I must be coming at it from the wrong angle - lets start over... Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ask Milners how much they spent getting the Lex to run properly Lexus V8 is Its a good engine and on a track where you can exploit the power characteristics that the engine provides but its not a mudplugging engine by any stretch of the imagination - the early engines had 2 ecu's one for the box and the other for the engine - the later units had a single dual purpose ecu and this is the one to avoid as the ecu needs a gearbox emulator signal before the ecu comes out to play and brings its ball with it. You can pick up an Early Lex V8 with ecu for £900 I love words like "Ultimate" dont know why but it makes me smile, there is no ultimate Land Rover purely by its definition as an all round work wagon - the only way to build "ultimate" vehicles is to define thier purpose, mud runner, rock crawler, safari racer, overlander, How much Landrover is left after building a specialist bus? 'pends on the purpose you out the car to but erm not a lot, parts of the chassis (possibly), parts of bodywork, maybe a gearbox and transfercase - personally I quite like early range rover PAS reservoirs... With the car Im building at the mo I made a rod for my own back by trying to keep as much Landrover as I could but mouse will be a complete departure from Landy parts purely because of its purpose. Point taken about Cast Iron SBC's vs Ally LS's but the Northstars are similar pennies at the mo to a good condition SBC with the benefit of saving 60Kgs in engine weight all I need is a limitless budget and another few months in the Laboratory........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ultimate for my needs is an engine that will last a lifetime with servicing and without major surgery. Be able to do what ever i ask of it. Also be an object of desire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 So what are you going to ask of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 So what are you going to ask of it? I dont know. Its got to last a long time so it could be anything I may ask it to make the dinner one day It has got to be reliable i suppose the first thing would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callum Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ultimate for my needs is an engine that will last a lifetime well i think you should get a jap diesel then. most of the old faithfuls will do 500k miles easy. you're not going to get that out of a landie engine, especially not a bored out and tuned one. look towards light japanese trucks over 3 litres and give consideration to what will be immediately behind it. 4 or 6 cyl...dont really know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 well i think you should get a jap diesel then. most of the old faithfuls will do 500k miles easy. It's nice to have some comedy on the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 I've had a sleep and thought about it. I don’t need an ultimate engine I need something reliable with a fair amount of power that will run for years. Then the money i save over the ultimate engine i can spend on something else for it So do i: 1. Have my 3.9 rebuilt to a reliable/modest power spec 2. International 2.8 HS 3. 300tdi 4. Jap diesel Do you think there is much difference in life expectancy between a new and a rebuilt engine? Is there a compromise in running a V8 on LPG and petrol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 I've had a sleep and thought about it. I don’t need an ultimate engine I need something reliable with a fair amount of power that will run for years. I think mileage is important - how many miles equates to 'run for years'? Do you think there is much difference in life expectancy between a new and a rebuilt engine? No - if you ask me, a rebuilt one has the potential to be built far better than a factory new one, but whether it is or not is another question... Is there a compromise in running a V8 on LPG and petrol? There is always a compromise when you start adding requirements... But if you are after a solid engine, not highly tuned, there would be no prob adding LPG - plenty have done it. Sounds like you and I are looking for similar engines - how about getting a new 4.0 block and starting from there? Did you see my post?: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=3667 Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 I think mileage is important - how many miles equates to 'run for years'?Sounds like you and I are looking for similar engines - how about getting a new 4.0 block and starting from there? Did you see my post?: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=3667 Al. If it was to stay a V8 it probably wont do that many miles. As i will have a company car but that is only for work. So i would use it occasionaly in the week and on my days off. Probably 4,000 miles a year max. Yes Al i did see your post thats what me thinking about a reliable V8 instead of a balls out one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 If it was to stay a V8 it probably wont do that many miles. As i will have a company car but that is only for work. So i would use it occasionaly in the week and on my days off. Probably 4,000 miles a year max.Yes Al i did see your post thats what me thinking about a reliable V8 instead of a balls out one. Oh yeah - sorry, I just saw your msg on that thread! For the sake of 4000 miles a year, I probably wouldn't bother with LPG personally - but what the hell, if you fancy it, do it. Also, that kind of mileage means you can pick pretty much any engine. I wouldn't worry about longevity if its gonna take 25 years to do 100k miles. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 Well if a new V8 is going to drink fuel like the current one is i won't be able to do 100 miles a year. As you are probably aware my 3.9 has a problem and it is using 1/4 of a tank a day in petrol to cover 26 miles I might start a new thread titled modest reliable engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 This thread has now been changed into Which modest engine and can be found HERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 I see what you mean about the LS1 engines LS1 a brand new 5.7 Chevy with an aluminum block, 320 Horsepower @ 5800 RPM and 330 ft/lbs @ 4400 RPM for about £3,600 + shipping. Makes it seem not really worth rebuilding a Rover V8 to a high spec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall_CSK Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I might start a new thread titled modest reliable engine Ah now we are getting to the bone. I would be sorely tempted to try one of the Yank V8's, you must be able to tune them to get a better torque spreadBoostseem to have a handle on it but I don't know what that would add to the chequebook equation. Reliability, look after it, jacket preheater that will run when you plug it into a timer at home, Erbsbacher deisel fired one (running on red diesel which is perfectly leagal) when away from home, stored pressure prelubricator, 1 micron bypass filter and good synthetic oil. Running on LPG of course. Everything is hot to trot when you turn the key, and wait 20 secs to self lub, the engine runs at desgned temp and efficiency right out of the drive, and you are comfy hence tend to drive with better concentration. You don't get the huge amount of wear that every engine suffers when you start it cold without oil. You change the filter on a regular basis and get the oil analysed every 15,000 miles and only change it when you really need to, which will be pretty far between since LPG is so clean and all the nasties are taken out by the 1 micron filter and you have reduced your major source of wear as soon as the engine runs. You will be doing great things for the atmosphere, reducing your oil wastes and saving a good deal of money. What will it cost, well I'll tell you when I get around to doing it That said I would still love to have a play with one of those Yank V8's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 Has anybody seen this on e-bay LS6. is £5,400 a good price or is that way over the top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Has anybody seen this on e-bay LS6. is £5,400 a good price or is that way over the top? Hi Ben, sorry, just saw this - I guess it's too late now! The auction has ended. Winning bid was 2870, but he says he won't sell for less than 5400. So I dunno what happened about that?!? If they got it at that price, then that is AMAZING. Shipped with loom etc. The 5400 is pretty 'regular' pricing. But still a lot of engine for the money! The main concern with this is simply the problems of sticking it in a landy. I'll be using an LS engine for my next project, but none of the drivetrain will be Rover-based. I don't care what aftermarket halfshafts you get, this thing will break em unless you start looking at bigger (non-Rover) axles (or limit throttle use - buy a smaller engine, it's cheaper!). To make a reliable system you'll basically need to replace everything between the engine and the tyres. So the real cost isn't just the engine... But, at least in my eye's, it's worth it! Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 I suppose the gearbox needs to come with it? what transfer box? portal axles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I suppose the gearbox needs to come with it? what transfer box? portal axles? Well, not 'with' it per se, you just need to fit a different gearbox of your choice - manual / auto etc. There is some choice, but no Landy box will cope as far as I know - not sure of the torque rating for the LT95, so that may last for a while, not sure. Transfer box depends on use, but there are plenty of strong choices out there - in fact, this seems a little easier than the gearbox choice. If I had to stick with 1 piece of the landy drivetrain, I guess it'd be the LT230, I think it'd be the last bit to fail, but it'd probably go in the end, so I'd use something else from the word go. Depends on you speed range / application / what kind of selectivity you're after / multiple ratios... Again, portals depends on your use. You can build/buy strong non-portal axles. It's not a requirement, depends on whether you can cope with the heavy axles, gearing issues, possible ride-height/chassis clearance issues that portals bring. I guess the thing to do is try to decide exactly what you need the truck for. Then draw up a list of alternatives based on issues important to you - cost / availablility in your country / weight / ratios & speed / strength / manual or auto / work involved in fitting it together / fuel economy / reliability (remember a crate LS is built for a road car, so it could have better reliability than some other choices...) / torque and power curves / drivetrain length / clearance under car (large sump or bad transfer box angle, for example) etc etc... Starting with a blank canvas is tricky! Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall_CSK Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Becoming more common, this one at Donnington Kit Car show. Wife dragged me away when she saw me scribbling down the telephone number but I had already taken the pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Becoming more common, this one at Donnington Kit Car show. The problem with stuff like that is the price often reflects UK perceptions of how hard it is to make lots of power, when in fact (not necessarily in this case, but often) the same engine in the states is dirt cheap, new. It's the rarity here that keeps prices falsely inflated, plus the shipping... I dunno what that one is, or mileage etc, but 4k GBP buys a lot of engine States-side. But enough of the chit chat - DO IT!!! You know [(I want)] you want to! Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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