Young bobtail Rhys Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Right, not sure really where to start so here's the problem ATM it won't start (3.5efi) but when it did, it started on about 4cyl, was blowing back through the air filter and pumping pure blue smoke out of the exhaust. Things that work on it: -Managment system -Fuel pump -Spark plugs, dizzy coil etc. One of the problems is that the fuel is only getting as far as the plenum and not really giving the plugs a good soaking and flooding up. The other is the fact that some of the smoke was a little white tonight when it suddenly decided to start. So could be a head gasket? But why all the blue smoke and lack of fuel? Also the plugs seem to have oil on them and when I removed the air flow meter and pipe, both the plenum inlet and pipe was full of some kind of oil mixed with a bit of petrol guey gunk. All seems strange to me as it was running ok the day before, (albeit a bit lumpy and a pain to start) but no signs of sudden death Any help would be appreciated Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Are all the valves opening? I had a 3.5 where the cam for number 8 exhaust ended up round and was not opening the valve at all. The symptoms were very similar to what you describe. This can happen in a very short period if the surface of the cam gets damaged due to lack of oil etc. as the cam is only 'case hardened' - rather like a Smartie, hard shell, soft centre. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young bobtail Rhys Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 How will I be able to test if the valves are all opening? If they aren't, then it looks like my 4.2 will be going in sooner than I thought but I was on to do a challenge this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 How will I be able to test if the valves are all opening? If they aren't, then it looks like my 4.2 will be going in sooner than I thought but I was on to do a challenge this weekend Remove all plugs Do a compression test or Remove rocker cover disable ignition crank and watch arms up n downing In the meantime I'll have a thinky Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young bobtail Rhys Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Hmmmmm........ I think as now we are looking within the internal components of the engine I will just whip that engine out and wack in me 4.2. Thanks for the info though I may run a compression test though to see what comes up through that Any more info is still helpful thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Had a think Check carefully the resistor pack, when this goes T*ts up, or more likley the horrible horrible molex conector has a poor connection (plug to loom) you'll loose 1 side of the entire engine Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I have a whole heap of 3.5 swapsies over her in Waterlooville. ECU, flapper, res pack, coil, dizzy, etc. The dead engine has an uprated cam in it too. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I have had something very similar for a while (very lumpy cold starting, black smoke, irratic idle/hunting), so vehicle has been off the road for about a year!! I have done every test going, rebuilt loom etc. etc. and all checks out fine. So am today about to send my injectors off for a bit of a cleanup as this is about the only thing left. If it is any consolation, my engine has only done about 4,000 miles and runs like a swiss clock on LPG. I will report back if this cures the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOR4x4 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Try changing the relays in the engine loom, the aluminium bosch ones, swap them with some known good ones from another car if you have access to one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I have had something very similar for a while (very lumpy cold starting, black smoke, irratic idle/hunting), so vehicle has been off the road for about a year!! I have done every test going, rebuilt loom etc. etc. and all checks out fine. So am today about to send my injectors off for a bit of a cleanup as this is about the only thing left.If it is any consolation, my engine has only done about 4,000 miles and runs like a swiss clock on LPG. I will report back if this cures the problem. That will be expensive. Why not borrow some to experiment with. I'm in Waterlooville and have a set of both 3.5 and 3.9 injectors. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 That will be expensive. Why not borrow some to experiment with. I'm in Waterlooville and have a set of both 3.5 and 3.9 injectors.Steve Now he tells me! Many thanks for the offer Steve. I didn't think too bad at £10 an injector, but will be in touch if this doesn't do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 similarly I won't mention the spares I have about Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young bobtail Rhys Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 I will try that resistor pack now Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young bobtail Rhys Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 ..........and there is still no go, I think technically and mechanically its knackered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Check fuel pressure in the rail Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Someone switched your plug leads about ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail84 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 The other is the fact that some of the smoke was a little white tonight when it suddenly decided to start. So could be a head gasket? But why all the blue smoke and lack of fuel? Also the plugs seem to have oil on them and when I removed the air flow meter and pipe, both the plenum inlet and pipe was full of some kind of oil mixed with a bit of petrol guey gunk. If the gunk was grey that's a problem. All seems strange to me as it was running ok the day before, (albeit a bit lumpy and a pain to start) but no signs of sudden death Any help would be appreciated Cheers Some if not all the above symptoms are what I had last Tuesday and that was both head gaskets corroded at the front by the waterway and it was just starting too go all wrong. 2.5day's and lots of steady work inc lapping the valve's for good measure and all's well.. Jeff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young bobtail Rhys Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 All fuel is fine, lots of pressure right upto the plenum, and plug leads are all in order! I think this engine has hads its time now, I have a 30,000 mile 4.2 with gearbox sitting here so rather than spend any money on it, I will just remove it and put the 4.2 in. I was just hoping it would be a simpler job rather than internal parts so I could use her for a little longer as I wasn't planning to put the other engine in for a little while. Thanks though chaps, appreciate it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 When you say "Lots of pressure" is that 'observered' or actually properly 'measured' ? ie you need mid 30s PSI, .....but 20 psi 'visually' looks / feels the same.... but the engine won't barely run if so Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young bobtail Rhys Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 Nope, not measured. How would you go about doing that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Ah HA ! You need to plumb in a gauge in line in the fuel flow in line not the return or in your case shove it in the 9th injector pipe Aim for around 30-34 psi ign on engine off Mine is home made I'll bung a pic up tomoorow the parts where from ebay Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Just an additional thought........... If fuel then its either filter blocked, pump dying (often the case) or PRV failing / failed One truly 'horrible bodge' is to squeeze the return hose with molegrips 'gently' when running.... as this will increase the fuel in the rail Worth a go, erm..... BTW don't f clamp it .....as the HP EFI Pump can produce 120 PSI if OK Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young bobtail Rhys Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 Ok thanks Nige, very helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Just as an update. Now fitted recon. injectors and runs like a dream.... for the first time in over a year.... YIPEE. So I am assuming mine was sticky/ dirty old injectors. The tuneable ECU actually makes a diference now when I twist its knob YBR - In your original post, you mention that 'the fuel is only getting as far as the Plenum'. AFAIK there should not be fuel in the Plenum (apart from a bit from 9th injector when really cold), so maybe your 9th injector is leaking? Have you tried blocking it off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveRK Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Good point Coastguard - if the fuel pressure regulator diaphragm is perforated then it could be sucking fuel into the plenum via the vacuum pipe - To swap out an engine is a shed load more elbow grease than trying a few tests especially if its a differant variant V8 - lots of potential gotchas there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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