OT: Oklahoma Full Auto Shoot

[Les Henson]

Guns do not kill people .................people behind them do.

Indeed, but if there wasn't a trigger to pull in the first place.......................

Yes you can kill someone with just about anything, but a heavy machine gun is specifically designed for killing PEOPLE and nothing else. I can appreciate people who say they want one just 'cos they want one/they are pretty/ it's a penis thing, but it's hardly a suitable excuse for owning one. I suppose if there wasn't a little girl there using one, my repsonse would have been different, but not much.

Les.

[dollythelw]

I suppose if there wasn't a little girl there using one, my repsonse would have been different, but not much.

Les.

Do you think for that reason Toys R us should withdraw there range of Phalanx and 50cal automatic firearms in the 6-9 age range?

bit of perspective here, although its a peice of cake to buy grey guns Im not sure the average under 10 has a large enough rucksack to carry a GPMG, they may possibly be able to pick up an Accuracy International with a decent whip round at dinner break but Im not sure if they would have enough pocket money for more than 2 or 3 rounds of DU ammunition.

Every beaters day we have well taught, very safe, responsible and supervised children armed with shotguns, I guess the headlines could be sufficiently Daily Mirror if the journos managed to get out of the towns, so far only 85% of the young guns go on to become mass muderers (we are working on trying to improve this figure in line with government guidelines)

we work with firearms, our children are exposed to firearms - just as they are exposed to drugs in schools, violence on TV, a failing educational system and the prospect of V8s being too expensive to run, perhaps parenting could equip children with the skills to allow them how to "do the right thing" in life? who knows - but then its easier to just ban anything you dont like or understand "for the good of us all"

[s2hotdog]

Well I would'nt mind going over and have go at that I know its not very PC but thats me

BTW I would not shoot anybody ............. just would like to fire a gun

Looks bad that little girl discharging the machine gun the guy has to point it! and she has aching fingers from pulling the trigger ................... perental pressure thats a bad thing AFAIC

Steve

[02GF74]

FFS DBSFS

Guns do not kill people .................people behind them do.

And before you get 'smug and smart' with a reply.......... same applies for cars.

So, lets ban cars

I agree but that is not quite what I said. The sole purpose of guns is to kill. The same does not apply to cars as their design, unless it is mad max or death race 2000 is not to kill.

Dunblane and hungerford had everything to do with 'nutters' and 'authorities' failing to do their jobs, but thats ok, lets persecute probably the most law abiding citizens in the UK (try getting a FAC and see what you have to go through) by banning them,

It is easy to identify "nutters" after the fact. I can guarantee you that if guns were readily accessible in the UK, there will be a lot more shootings by so called normal people - how many times do you hear in USA someone being fired and then going to work to kill their boss and collegaues? In today's soceity, given the right set of circumstances, it is not that difficult to push a so called normal person over the edge.

[Les Henson]

Do you think for that reason Toys R us should withdraw there range of Phalanx and 50cal automatic firearms in the 6-9 age range?

If they REALLY blew up cars or Really destroyed things, then yes. There's no real comparison though. A child owning a toy wouldn't necessarily relate it to blowing things up in real life or shooting people.

Les.

[dollythelw]

I can guarantee you that if guns were readily accessible in the UK, there will be a lot more shootings by so called normal people -

erm, ask around, handguns start at a ton, the only thing that banning legally held handguns did was ban those legitimate and law abiding people that wanted them.

I take my rifles and shotguns abroad on a regular basis, I am checked leaving the country but have to wake customs officials up just to get them to look at them on the way back - mostly they just tell me not to bother.

[Les Henson]

erm, ask around

Where? Who?

the only thing that banning legally held handguns did was ban those legitimate and law abiding people that wanted them.

No it didn't, while I agree with some, but not all of the restrctions that were imposed after the Hungerford massacre, I would say that the tougher laws mostly made sure that it WAS harder to get hold of guns illegally, and that those that owned them were suitable for owning them.

BTW - someone mentioned the Hungerford massacre in relation to kids shooting at school. That wasn't the case. I was working in woodlands very close to the school on that day and the guy only holed up in there before eventually killed himself.

I don't have total dislike of guns and those that own/want them. Shutguns, rifles, handguns for sport or competition is fine with me. Heavy guns - though, it seems to me that there's no real skill in one - you see where the stream of bullets go and ajust your aim accordingly, as shown in the video clip. Seems all you need is the money to buy one and the ammo.

Les.

[dollythelw]

Where? Who?

pretty much any city Les, possibly not at the rotary club though

the restrctions that were imposed after the Hungerford massacre mostly made sure that it WAS harder to get hold of guns illegally

keep believing it, but seriously what on earth do you base that on?? practical experience of moving firearms through borders?? I do, I do it legally, I know just how ridiculously easy it is IF you wanted to do a little extra shipping

possibly the massive increase in gun crime has passed you by. Glocks are seen a fashion statements, we use metal detectors for most nights on the door and airport style walk throughs for rap nights and you would be amazed how many "gangstas" wont go through em, two of my collegues have been shot, Ive been shot at, two of the crew in Reading were shot in one night , home town Costa del Basingstoke (little place) has had 3 shootings in the past 6 months - want me to keep listing them out? perhaps they baddies had gone through the FAC process, been visited by the firearms officer, kept thier ammunition locked away and thier guns disassembled - I should imagine the fluffyland police are closing in on them as we speak

Oh I do feel safe in that knowledge now

[Les Henson]

Strange now how your argument has completely changed to hand guns and similar weapons. Using ownership of L/R's as a strange relationship withe machine guns. I'm sure you can spout it off all day long, and hint at your expertise/experience or whatever. You won't change my thoughts on this subject and I don't want to change yours. Best we agree to disagree don't you think.

The Rotary Club comment, were you trying to be stupid or just funny?

Les.

[dollythelw]

Les I dont have to hint, I have a european FAC, I shoot in Eastern europe, I cross borders with guns on a regular basis - its no joke the security on the UK borders is non-existant so if Jo baddy wants to bring weapons in its very very easy. Ive been a doorman for over 10 years - unfortunatley this does tend to involve exposure to the less desirable elements of society and yep firearms are becoming increasingly common.

Rotary club? - stupid I can do easily, funny I have to work at, I hardly think the law abiding community has the inclination to access illegal firearms, but assuming that because a law has been passed has any effect on illegal possesion is stretching it just a bit - has the drug trade also died down since opium was banned? even the police admit gun crime is spiralling

making a link between landrover ownership and a poorly thought out popularist piece of legislation is valid - defend your freedoms or some vote seeking politician will erode them to non existance, Glass, LARA, BASC, NGO, TRF are all fighting for the same basic thing - the right to be left alone

sorry I dont tow the company line but life would be dull if we all did, said and thought the same way, I respect your viewpoint on firearms and would expect the same courtesy - a forum should be for debate, this is (just about) still a free country.

Cheers

Jez

[02GF74]

cos more die in and from them that anything else, ................you know its true

One last comment. Do you really believe this is a meaningful comparison? If the number of people using guns every day in the UK for the same amount of time was the same as those that drive cars, how do you think the fataliies would compare? I don't know the figures but would guess more people die of heart attacks than are killed by guns so using your argument, should we ban lard and McD? Or cot deaths or any other unrealted statistic could be used. Nuf said by me.

[BogMonster]

02, it would certainly cut down the traffic problem if instead of shouting at each other people starting shooting at each other instead

[02GF74]

02, it would certainly cut down the traffic problem if instead of shouting at each other people starting shooting at each other instead

If I had a gun, I would carry it with me when I cycle to work and pretty sure by now would have shot a few peopel who just push out across my path becase they are in a car and they know they cannot be hurt unlike me. Leaving a dead body in a car would just block the road so I would say it would have the oppostie effect.

[minivin]

If I had a gun, I would carry it with me when I cycle to work and pretty sure by now would have shot a few peopel who just push out across my path becase they are in a car and they know they cannot be hurt unlike me. Leaving a dead body in a car would just block the road so I would say it would have the oppostie effect.

Norfolk Broads solve that problem, you just push the car in the nearest drainage ditch

[BogMonster]

If I had a gun, I would carry it with me when I cycle to work and pretty sure by now would have shot a few peopel who just push out across my path becase they are in a car and they know they cannot be hurt unlike me. Leaving a dead body in a car would just block the road so I would say it would have the oppostie effect.

OK I'll run you over from behind then, sounds safer

[MarkieB]

this is (just about) still a free country

condoning terrorism with that kind of anti-government parenthetical statement, could be grounds for "bashing your door down at the crack of dawn, detaining you without charge, then eventually charging you then turning your life upside down for 6 months until the Attorney-General tells them to stop" as one commentator put it

[Turbocharger]

I've been mentioned on this thread already, I think. I look at it this way:

Guns - I've been shooting since I was six, the education started there with "Never point a gun at anyone. Even a toy. Always check it's empty. Respect the dangerous end".

Alcohol/drugs - My parents said "Go and try". They fed me wine and beer (in moderation) if I asked for it, from a similar age.

Cars - I drove cars in safe locations from age 9ish.

Fire - It's hot, and I was warned. The quickest way to learn to respect that is to burn yourself.

Angle grinders - I've used these with and without the disc guard. Now I only use them with the guard...

With all of these, I learned at an early age and now shoot responsibly, don't do drugs and drink occasionally, in moderation and my workshop skills are safer each time a near-accident (or learning good practice from others) educates me. We'll leave my driving out of it though...

The problem isn't how dangerous the gun/tool/vehicle/element is, just how educated those around it are. If everyone understands a problem, it's rarely a problem. Sadly, the easiest path is to pander to the lowest common denominator and start banning things. Then you remove what control you had and force guns/hunting/fishing to a covert group, without records or safety rules.

Let's ban banning

(The machine gun clip is deliberately emotive, but I can't see a problem since nobody is getting hurt. The girl is perhaps an unwilling volunteer but if she's now got vibration whitefinger and didn't enjoy it, where's her incentive to go and buy a gun?)