Criminal Damage or not?

[Troddenmasses]

Went Laning on Salisbury Plain yesterday with Turbocharger, Andy Cowman and Chris Watts. Was an excellent day all round. Anyway, at one point - just off the plain, we were driving down a public right of way (no disputing that) and came across a locked gate which lead onto a road. I was thinking about cutting the chain off, when I was stopped by Chris Watts, who is obviously a much more 'law abiding' citizen that I had him marked down for , who thought that we should drive back the way we had come and go another route. He said that cutting the chain was definately criminal damage. This got me thinking. A policeman in the UK has to prove certain things to prove an offence. In the case of criminal damage (section 1, part 1 of the Criminal damage act 1971) they are:

1. Without lawful excuse

2. destroys/damages

3. property

4. belonging to another

5. intending/reckless as to

6. the destruction/damage

Now, if I had cut the lock off, there would be no doubt about points 2,3,4,5 and 6. I would have cut the chain, which would be property belonging to another. I would have done it intentionally and there would have been damage (to the chain).

The question arises about point 1. Chris Watts reckons that there is no way that I could have 'lawful authority', but I think that it can come in a variety of ways. The main 2 are:

1. If it was unlawful to block a public highway, then surely it must be lawful to un-block it. I wouldn't have been going overboard (ie. destroying the gate) but would have removed the obstruction.

2. If I truly believed that the owner would have wanted me to do this for him. Surely, if the owner (of the chain) had known that he was commiting an offence by blocking a public right of way, he would have wanted the obstruction removed. I was simply doing that for him.

In the end, Turbocharger managed to get a spade out and lift the gate off it's hinges. When we had passed, we put it back onto it's hinges, thus causing the least damage all around. However, if that had not been possible, does anybody have any thoughts on which of us was correct?

[Les Henson]

It is unlawful to block a public highway by any means. I think you can cut the lock or chain, but you must leave the bits there or you are stealing someone elses property. I think 'reasonable force' has to be used as well. You couldn't rip the gate out by it's posts for example. You could play it safe and phone the Police to let them know what you have done.

Les.

[minivin]

I think the safest act is to make an accurate note of where the gate was, and then inform the local authorities that the gate at that point has been purposely locked and is blocking a Public Right of Way, that way they can do the lawfull route of rectifying it. Burocracy but should mean it's as legally correct as possible

[GBMUD]

I think the safest act is to make an accurate note of where the gate was, and then inform the local authorities that the gate at that point has been purposely locked and is blocking a Public Right of Way, that way they can do the lawfull route of rectifying it. Burocracy but should mean it's as legally correct as possible

Living only a mile or so from County Hall I might pop in later and report the obstruction in person. There is a notice from the council posted at the end of the lane (Marked as a RUPP on the map) saying that it has been recorded on the definitive map as a BOAT. No excuse then.

Chris

[Guest diesel_jim]

can anyone PM me the grid ref for this lane? i regularly venture around Salisbury Plain so would liek to check it out.

I can also email Denise Chandler (who i expect Chris will talk to) and report it to her.

But if a legal RoW is blocked then you're within your rights to remove any blockage.

[Fatboy]

I have seen a locked gate to a disused quarry where responsible people had cut the chain but joined the two ends with their own paddlock... This meant that the gate stayed locked, the original key holder still had normal access and the new lock holders could also get in!

The funny thing was that it progressed to being a "Chain" of paddlocks where there must have been a dozen different varieties...

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

On a public ROW (that has no current barring orders in force) you are legally entitled to remove an obstruction to one side in order to proceed. However, I think Chis was 100% right and I would have done exactly the same until such time as I had actually ascertained 110% the full status of the lane and the geographical position of the obstruction. It’s always best for the highway authority to take up this issue with the land owner in the first instance.

The other problem is the legacy that you leave behind ………… even if the land owner is completely in the wrong, it’s ever so easy to further justify his/hers blocking of the lane with a rant in the press about people in 4x4’s cutting the padlocks. Usually this type of rant will use eye-catching words like ‘irresponsible’, ‘illegal, ‘mindless’, ‘vandalism’, ‘3 foot deep ruts,’ etc, etc.

Another way is to lift the gate from its hinges and then replace it once you have passed.

As an example we have a gated lane local to me ……… I had been going through there for years with no problem ………. and then the gate became locked. To cut a long story short I was in the lane and the farmer was also there ………. we got chatting and he was telling that he got fed up with having to retrieve his cattle after the gate had been left open ……… with this happening on many occasions. I told him that it was a pity that we all had to suffer because of a few irresponsible tw@ts …….. he agreed and then promised to change the padlock for a combination lock and I was to ring the farm for the number. I still use this lane on a regular basis……………. but would it be the same if I had just cut the chain ?

Ian

[rtbarton]

I was locked in a carpark once. The hinges on the gate were pins with nuts screwed onto them. I undid the nuts, lifted the gate & drove out. I then replaced the gate, and out of genourosity gave the owner some extra washers which I placed under the nuts for safe keeping. I then tightened the nuts f****** tight so no one could steal the gate.

The owners of the carpark were not amused next day.

[Fatboy]

I then tightened the nuts f****** tight so no one could steal the gate.

The owners of the carpark were not amused next day.

Roger - I like your style

[Guest diesel_jim]

Roger - I like your style

should have got the oxy torch and welded it shut!

[VeryDisco]

As a RUPP, when NERC comes in it will be lost for vehicular traffic anyway, you might be able to prove vehicular use, but the council will just TRO it. So get used to kissing all the RUPP s goodbye. A gate needs consent from the council, the width position and type have to be specified. No permission means that it is an obstruction that does not even have council consent to be there.

It should be removed and not replaced, if you replace it then YOU are obstructing the highway!

You cannot take it home with you, burn it, break it up, or bury it under 3 foot of mud and rock. This upsets the farmer. Neither should you squirt Super Glue into the padlock or short your booster leads across the locked padlock, this makes it impossible to unlock.

8" nails driven through the gate into the post is just criminal damage.

[Les Henson]

short your booster leads across the locked padlock, this makes it impossible to unlock.

Fiona, you dodgy devil! How come you know all this?

Les.

[GBMUD]

Fi

There is a notice from the council posted at the end of the lane (Marked as a RUPP on the map) saying that it has been recorded on the definitive map as a BOAT.

Saw quite a lot of them yesterday dotted around. There is an application for upgrade notice posted on a bridleway near me, signed by the TRF. No sign of a reclassification niotice though but plenty of (Motorbike) tyre prints.

Chris

[Turbocharger]

Hi-lifting it from the hinges, passing and replacing has always been my favourite (ask my Dad, who escaped in this fashion from Bath's Park and Ride site) but this gate had one hinge upside-down. Luckily, one hinge was broken so we just 'adjusted' it for him.

[rtbarton]

Roger - I like your style

Thanks - especially as it was a Barclays Bank (Sowerby Bridge). Me and a mate were doing a job in the nearby Lloyds Bank, but they didn't have a car park.

[Les Henson]

doing a job in the nearby Lloyds Bank

Ok, you're nicked sunshine.

Les.

[GBMUD]

I can also email Denise Chandler (who i expect Chris will talk to) and report it to her.

But if a legal RoW is blocked then you're within your rights to remove any blockage.

You can email Densie Chandler all you like, she has now left Wiltshire CC and gone to Swindon (BC?) .

I went and spoke to Janice (also very helpful) in Trowbridge yesterday to report the locked gate and she will get someone on to it. I also asked her about the lane on the opposite side of the A360, the one which goes past Stone Henge. There is a diversion of the lane through some woods to a point about 100m further south on the A360 than is shown on the OS and definitive maps. It looks as if the farmer may have ploughed the BOAT and made an unofficial diversion through the woods. Naughty naughty.

I also asked about cutting the lock and Janice said that she thought this would be a no no although she was unsure of the exact legal position. I might go to the police station and make a nucence of myself later... The desk civilian never has any idea.

Chris

[Guest diesel_jim]

Ah... that'll be why i never got a reply from Denise last week re: another byway! (she told me last year she was thinking of packing it in... .something about the general public's attitude and not feeling appreciated at work!)

I reckon the new person at WCC needs to gen up the correct procedure... it can't be an offence to un-block a public right of way,no more than it can be an offence to illegally block on.