daveyboy300tdi Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Has anybody heard of it being done? Im not talking about the late ones with the fly by wire to the pump, I mean stand alone engine management such as megasquirt? I realise it would be a mix match of components, just wondering if it'd been tried/done. I would be interested if it could be done without costing ££££'s as it could potentially release power/torque. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MECCANO Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Has anybody heard of it being done? Im not talking about the late ones with the fly by wire to the pump, I mean stand alone engine management such as megasquirt? I realise it would be a mix match of components, just wondering if it'd been tried/done.I would be interested if it could be done without costing ££££'s as it could potentially release power/torque. Cheers. I've heard of it being done. the only problem is that the EDC engines were connected to auto's. this means there is no bolt on parts to mount the crank sensor to the flywheel of a manual ( if you have amanual that is). you might be able to adapt the auto flex plate setup and fix it to a flywheel. you need a list of bits ( i think this is most of them): ecu loom injection pump mass air flow sensor throttle pot crank angle sensor intake air temp sensor fuel temp sensor ( which i beleive is int he fuel pump assembley) I'm not sure if a regular one with do, but you also need a key fob and matched reciever that turns the ecu on. Some of these parts are hard to get hold of, and people charge a premium. like the throttle sensor. Its almost cheaper to buy an engine with complete loom and ecu. The edc controlled engines are ment to kick out 140bhp. So a slight increase in standard. From what i have heard it does create a big reduction in the exhaust smoke of a manually controlled diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 It's not that difficult providing you have everything you need for the Efi engine. I swopped the body on my 3.5Efi for a 300 Series TDI one. The only problem I really had was that they removed the TDI ECU. This also controlled the Air Con so I had to rig the Air Con to a seperate switch. If you think about it all Discoveries are the same. Just different parts of wiring loom. LR do not make one version of the Discovery for TDI engines and then another for Petrol engines. As I remember all we needed was the V* and it's complete loom. It was a bit more difficult as the engine etc came from a 200 Series. The 300 Series BECM etc did not need to be touched. I did find the electronic Rave manual to be a life saver with it's circuit diagrams and pictures of the connectors and where they live. HTH Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Are we talking about converting a 300tdi disco to a Rover V8 engine with EFI, or fitting an EFI system to the TDi engine.... If its the latter, it basically cant be done. EFI systems like megasquirt are designed for petrol engines, and theres very little (no?) aftermarket kit to convert Diesel motors to any kind of electronic injection. It would require major engine redesign for a start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 duplicate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MECCANO Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Are we talking about converting a 300tdi disco to a Rover V8 engine with EFI, or fitting an EFI system to the TDi engine....If its the latter, it basically cant be done. EFI systems like megasquirt are designed for petrol engines, and theres very little (no?) aftermarket kit to convert Diesel motors to any kind of electronic injection. It would require major engine redesign for a start! i thought he was asking about converting a munaully controlled 300tdi injection system to, the later EDC ( electronic fuel injection) that is used int he discovery es models , but only in conjunction with an auto box. ( another item to add to the list is the injector with inbuilt sensor) As aragon said, converting to use a system like megasquirt is very difficult/ expensive. Not impossible though ( although i don't think mega squirt can do it) Its done alot in the state i believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 My mistake, I thought he was talking about fitting an EFI engine into a 300Tdi Discovery. Not converting a diesel to fuel injection. Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy300tdi Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 I was talking about converting a 300tdi to run stand alone management not the EDC system. I was just wondering if it could be done without great expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Has anybody heard of it being done? Im not talking about the late ones with the fly by wire to the pump, I mean stand alone engine management such as megasquirt? I realise it would be a mix match of components, just wondering if it'd been tried/done. Depends if you mean an electronically controlled mechanical injection pump (as I believe later 300TDi's were) or full electronic fuel injection. Proper Diesel EFI is vastly more demanding than petrol EFI, the MegaSquirt community are working on it and I've no doubt they'll succeed but currently it can't do it as standard. The control needed is similar or better than petrol ignition control; you have to fire injectors sequentially not just batch/alternating as per petrol FI, the timing of the squirt is important not just the overall length and modern engines have multiple squirts per cycle to improve all sorts of things like emissions and smoothness. It's all doable, it's just more processing power, timing resolution, signal routing etc. to make work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 The question is more the mechanics. How do you fire the injectors without the injection pump? What injectors do you use and how do you develop the nnn bars of pressure required... You'd need to graft on some kinda common rail injection system and tbh thats simply not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy300tdi Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Depends if you mean an electronically controlled mechanical injection pump (as I believe later 300TDi's were) or full electronic fuel injection.Proper Diesel EFI is vastly more demanding than petrol EFI, the MegaSquirt community are working on it and I've no doubt they'll succeed but currently it can't do it as standard. The control needed is similar or better than petrol ignition control; you have to fire injectors sequentially not just batch/alternating as per petrol FI, the timing of the squirt is important not just the overall length and modern engines have multiple squirts per cycle to improve all sorts of things like emissions and smoothness. It's all doable, it's just more processing power, timing resolution, signal routing etc. to make work. I didn't think it was as simple (or not in this case), thats why I've asked the question. What is needed for the EDC system? Is it worth it? Somebody mentioned around 140bhp with this management. Is this correct? Im looking at ways to increase torque/power for towing heavy loads without going to a td5 (affordability) plus I wouldn't mind a bit of challenge . When towing on the motorway big gradients are taking their toll on my 300tdi, which is well serviced with the pump tweaked and boost set at 18psi. Other than mangement and an expensive intercooler I don't have many options. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Unless you're doing it just for the sake of doing it, there is a law of diminishing returns on tuning any engine. If you need more than the normal basic tweaks can give, you're probably better off looking at a different engine which makes better power to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 EDC isnt going to give you any performance increase tbh, the performance is limited by the fuel injectors on rotary pump diesel engines. Either get yourself an EGT guage and push the fuelling on your pump as far as it will go before you start getting into the dangerous zone, or fit a larger engine. You could probably manage 20psi of boost to help things along too. I recon you could push give or take 150hp out of a TDi before you reach the point where the injectors are open for too long and the temperatures start getting silly. Unfortunately there arent really any injector upgrades available for the LR TDi's so once you reach that point you're not getting any more. You need to look at how much power you need, and if the TDi isnt capable, then the only sensible option is to fit something else. Either a TD5 engine or something Jap, or something with more cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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