Rv8 - Water in number 3

[LandyManLuke]

After carrying out a compression test on the v8, I've finally got round to getting the heads off.

As expected, cylinder 3 shows significant signs of water ingress. the bore of the cylinder was very mucky and there is a fair amount of rust. cleaning up the piston face shows that it has been steam cleaned quite nicely.

I'm not familar with Rover v8s, and was expecting to find a water passage near to the cylinder, and signs of a failed gasket having let water from the cooling jacket in to the cylinder. There's no water ways near by, and the gasket (apart from being the less desirable tin type) doesn't seem that bad. I was surprised by the amount of rust around and on the valves, but then the engine has been left a long time in its current condition. I've had a quick look down the ports and the rust doesn't seem to have spread to, or come from, that end of the valves, but i've not yet removed them for further inspection.

The other likely cause I've read about is dropped liners. the engine is a 3.9, so in the middle ground in terms of likely failure, but the liner in the cylinder in question is pretty much dead flush with the block face, certainly within a tolerance that i can't see or feel with a finger nail etc. I've not yet tried a set of feelers on it.

How has water got in to the cylinder? via the head/valves? or some other way?Any help much appreciated.

[Phil Hancock]

On a 3.9 the head gasket actually seals on the top of the block outboard of the wet liners, 3.5 seals on the liner top. The dropped liners story is usually only that the liners come loose at the top as that is the hottest part creating a leak path from the water jacket direct to the combustion chamber. The cure is £££££££££.

A friend of mine has killed numerous 3.9's and eventually cured it relatively cheaply by making a hybrid lump using 3.5 block, pistons & rods. All the rest was from the 3.9.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

The liner being "Dead Flush" doesn't mean much, dropped down a fair bit does show

the liners gone and moved, but what you have and described doesn't help as you

cannot normally tell if you have liner issues without technical examination / repairs

which unless you particularly need the engine is hugely expensive

I would suggest you best bet is to have a little pray - then put staright back together after a

good clean up with a set of composite gaskets and meticulous head bolt tightening - same with the

inlet gasket, composite and clean everything. Then see if you still have an issue if not

congrats, if yes then its a bigger problem, and you may have steam being drievn up past the liner

doing what that then does. Top Hat Liners would fix even this, but the bill is not cheap, and you then have to question

the overall condition of the rest of the engine and if its worth bothering with or sourcing another

block. 3.5s don't suffer this, 4.0 do, 3.9s are basically the same and 4.6s I have written loads on around this whole

issue.

For the sake of a compo gasket set its worth trying, anything elase will be as said £££££££S

Nige

[LandyManLuke]

Thanks for the advice above.

you then have to question the overall condition of the rest of the engine and if its worth bothering with or sourcing another

block.

In short, no. It's an engine of unknown age, unknow use/abuse and mileage. I certainly don't feel like making a judgement along the lines of 'investing' in this engine - i know so little about it.

From reading the above, I would say i'm looking at a loose/non-sealed liner, rather than a dropped one, in that the liner hasn't moved but is most likely not 100% sealed to the block around it. I can't see any other way of water getting in to the cylinder the way it has.

Oh well

[LR2luver]

If I can throw my two cents worth in; the cylinder heads may be a source of coolant entering the combustion chamber. If there is a crack in the inlet tract somewhere that may explain it. It could even be cracked near the seat. An engineering shop could pressure test the heads and check for leaks. It may or may not be repairable. And they will charge for the work performed. They will also check if the head is bent/warped. They could also check the hardness of the alloy, measured in Brunells I think. If the motor has over-heated at some stage (and you may not know if it has or not, and does the oil smell like its been burnt?) the head/s could have warped, or the alloy gone soft and lost its tension against the head bolts.

If the heads are soft they can be re-hardened but its a specialist job, not everyone engineering shop can do it. So they may well need to be replaced with either new or refurbished heads, then built up with the valves, studs etc. If the heads are warped, and not too thin through previous machining, they may be able to straighten them, then refurbish them. All this costs money, obviously.

So, you might finish up with a pair of smart, healthy, refurbished heads ready to put back on what? The old block that's done X amount of miles, possibly been overheated, sludged up etc. The heads will work like new, probably up the compression pressure to some degree and hey presto! you start burning oil because the botom end of the motor ie the block is old and tired. And that's assuming the cylinder liners are at the correct height.

Just some extra points to consider before blowing your hard earned money. Hope it helps.

Cheers.

Andrew

Katherine NT

Australia

[steve_d]

As Nige says..throw some composite gaskets at it.

If that doesn't work find another engine, there are plenty about.

Steve

[LandyManLuke]

What about the state of that cylinder? I can clean it up, but I don't know how long it'd been running like that, can't have done the rings much good? how much damage is likely to have been done?

Where should I be shopping for a gasket set? I'd rather buy right than buy cheap.

At the moment i'm considering the cost of gaskets etc Vs just picking up a (nearly) complete engine and starting again. Just need to find one for sensible money.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

As its No3 I would be very surprised if its head gasket ……………….. Looking at the steam cleaning I strongly suspect a water jacket crack behind No3 liner

IMHO not worth the effort unless you go for a full rebuild ……………

If you do decide to go forward with just gaskets then get them from Real Steel.

V8 heads rarely crack ……….. in fact I don’t ever remember seeing a cracked head.

[LandyManLuke]

Thanks for the reply Ian, I was hoping you might pop up.

[jcwcooper]

Where should I be shopping for a gasket set? I'd rather buy right than buy cheap.

http://www.v8engines.com/

heres another place

Dave.

[nas90]

Definitely a cracked block allowing water into the combustion chamber.

The story goes along these lines, Land Rover checked all V8 blocks at goods inward. The blocks with even thickness of casting in the block and bores vertical went to the 4.6 litre line, less accurately made blocks went to the 4.2 litre line, rubbish ended up on the 3.9 litre line. If it was totally useless it went to scrap and probably ended up at a (less than honest) engine re-manufacturers...................

The 3.9 in the nas did the same thing last year, towing a trailer to Margate, toodling along the Thanet Way and the temperature gauge suddenly went through the roof. Struggled back home after emptying the trailer and whipped the heads off. No sign of damage to the gaskets, no problems with the heads or pistons. Number 3 piston top and the combustion chamber in the head clean as a cleanest thing, looked as if just that cylinder had been steam cleaned. Walked into QUALITY ENGINEERED PRODUCTS LTD a very good local firm and they took about 5 seconds to tell me to throw the engine away!

Went to Turner Engineering and over £3000 later the nas had a completely refurbished engine with top hat liners. The gasket sits on the liner, the blocks Turners use are cracked but tested to ensure the cracks are not too far up the block, the blocks machined with a recess and the top hat liners then stop any water getting into the combustion chamber. Any 3.9 will do this stunt, it's just a matter of time before it happens. Mine went at 110,000 miles if you can find a genuine low miler 3.9 thats the best way, I needed the nas back on the road quickly and was prepared to pay over £3000...........