Getting a 300Tdi ready for a LONG trip.

[tweetyduck]

If i got my self a 300TDi and spent say £8-10K on it with 100-130K miles could i get this to a almost as new state by spending another £5K?

replace chassis, bulkhead, suspension, etc, etc,

What else should i do and how much approx including labour from a prep place? I want it to need nothing doing for a long time. At least no service items. I'd get belts and any service item replaced. If i needed to get clutch, gearbox done and even a full rebuild i would.

Am i mad? Is this even possible? Can you go out and by a wreck of a LR 130 300 and make it into one 10 years younger. Buying new is not an option due to carnet cost. Could i even get a scrap 130 and buy all the bits new for someone to do it for me?

I know i sound like i'm made of money (i'm not) but were gonna live in this thing for three years !

Is there somewhere that would do this for me?

thanks guys. one of these day i'll be able to offer help and not just ask......

[mmgemini]

If you don't want service items, forget any Defender. A Defender needs to be serviced on a regular basis. Every 6,000 miles or six months in the UK. Every 5,000 miles anywhere else.

My Defender is a 1995 model first registered in Jan 1996. It has over 206,000 Miles on it shewing in the speedo. I'm now getting it ready for another trip to Southern Africa.

I notice you mention the Carnet. The Carnet is only available fot one year. You do not need a Carnet for europe.

Neil. Take some time and nip over to http://www.landroveraddict.com/smf/index.php Read the Overland forums. There's a mine of information on there some from people who have actually done trips outside europe.

You are also welcome to take a look at my truck.

mike

[Godlykepower]

Neill,

You can get a very, very nice vehicle in your price range, if you go to a reputable dealer. I bought a 1995 300 Tdi 90 from The Land Rover Centre for what seemed like a LOT more than market value.

I have had it for a couple of years now, and I dont regret spending that amount of money one bit. The chassis is absolutely spot on, and rot free, and I have had no mechanical maladies to speak of in the time I have owned it. The only things that have gone wrong for me, are the usual electrical issues, replacing a propshaft UJ, replacing steering column UJ's and I had a wheel bearing let go at 60 miles an hour (which was lovely.) Otherwise the vehicle has full service history and has been a diamond of a buy.

The point I am trying to make is, spend as much as you can on the base vehicle, preferrably from a dealer with a stirling reputation, where a vehicles provenance can be ascertained, and you will find that you wont need to waste any money at all in replacing chassis & bulkheads etc. Replacing/upgrading your suspension is in no way comparable, nor should it be listed amongst a chassis swap job.

This will leave you more money for the other aspects of expedition vehicle preparation.

In answer to your question "Can you buy a wreck of a 130, and make it 10 years younger" well yes, you can, but certainly not within your budget, and certainly not if it starts out as a "wreck."

[mmgemini]

I agree with Martin. Being a mechanic means I don't have those bills to pay.

Look at the Defender Centre. Marc only sells Ex utility vehicles. Choose your vehicle and run it for six months. THEN and only then think of what you will need.

Before any long trip replace the clutch if you don't know the history of it and carry a spare unit.

mike

[Mo Murphy]

Neill, why not shop around and pay a bit more for an example that doesn't need a new chassis, bulkhead etc.

Rechassising a vehicle, whilst straightforward enough is a great deal of work and many lose heart long before completion.

Concentrate on finding a vehicle that doesn't need heaps of work, that's been someones pride and joy and well cared for.

HTH

Mo

[white90]

Buy one already done

a few galv'd chassised cars on classifieds I've browsed recently.

do the work yourself then you'll not need to pay labour and you'll learn all you need should it breakdown on the trip.

[tweetyduck]

Thanks guys. All good advice.

The reason for not wanting to get an expensive one firstly is the carnet would be based on that (possibly as its not an exact science). The carnet although only runs for a year can be pre completed for a multi year trip and all the paperwork Fed-Ex'd from where ever i am (if needed). The tip might not last 3 years or then again it might but the servicing every 6000 now worries me as this is something new.

I can't really afford to get the carnet on something newer and the availabilty of parts for a LR means its a safe bet that wherever we are it can be fixed. Even if i have to ship the part from the UK. That Nissan is looking more attractive...The shorter initial trips will certainly iron out issues with whatever i buy.

I've made a note of those web sites and will be visiting tomorrow. Thanks Again.

[mmgemini]

Neil

A carnet is worked out on the BOTTOM book value of the vehicle. I hope mine for this next trip will be less than two grand. Mine as I've said befor is a 1996 registered 110 station wagon. ONLY the base vehicle is valued. Not the extras fitted. On our last trip in 1997 our Defender was valued at £3,000 for the carnet.

If you don't want to pay that much. Look for a 110 not a Defender thats been converted to 200 or 300Tdi enging. You should manage one of those to value at less than £500 for the carnet.

You still need UK VED for the multi trips.

The Nissan we had with us in Namibia fell to bits after three days in Kaokaland. The Nissan also suffered like the Jeep that was with us in the Central Kalihari from lack of ground clearance.

The only other vehicle, except for a truck, That I would consider is the Toyota. Available in two or double cab, the douible cab is a Za conversion in either steel or GRP depending on who converted it. Go and see Paul Mash at Footloose 4X4 to look at his single cab. It's AFAIK the only one in the UK.

HTH

mike

mike

[tweetyduck]

I'm planning on using SORN when out of the UK once the tax runs out. This is, by all accounts, normal for the long trips. How many issues it will cause will no doubt show up when i'm at the first border where they know what they are doing...rather than just trying to extort money from you. A combination of both might be costly.

The UK MOT (pass or fail) is also a good way to get proof that the vehicle is back in the UK at the end of the trip as well.

I'm still going to go look for a LR then. Thanks for the advice on the other options.

[cieranc]

There are plenty of solid vehicles about that don't need the chassis or bulkhead replacing. I would generally steer clear of buying a wreck to restore, unless you're planning on a full nut-and-bolt rebuild, and that would cost more thn a brand new vehicle.

Look for something with a solid chassis and bulkhead and a service history. Ex-utility vehicles are usually a good buy, although they can sometimes look rough around the edges, they've usually been treat to a 'no expense spared' maintenance program throughout their working lives.

Steer clear of ex post office LR's, they get abused. BT Fleet motors are well looked after and well maintained.

[mmgemini]

I'm planning on using SORN when out of the UK once the tax runs out. This is, by all accounts, normal for the long trips. How many issues it will cause will no doubt show up when i'm at the first border where they know what they are doing...rather than just trying to extort money from you. A combination of both might be costly.

The UK MOT (pass or fail) is also a good way to get proof that the vehicle is back in the UK at the end of the trip as well.

I'm still going to go look for a LR then. Thanks for the advice on the other options.

It is NOT normal. It is illegal. Why should I as a pensioner pay my road tax when you don't ?

Also you will find that any third pary insurance will be nulled unles you have UK road tax at the time.

To SORN a vehicle you must give the address where the vehicle is parked up so that VOSA and the DVLA can check the vehicle.

I know some "preparation" companies do this. I wouldn't go near any company that suggests this Think on and be very careful about running an illegal vehicle in another country.

The only proof of a vehicle being back from outside europe is the stamp fom the customs person on the Carnet.

mike

[tweetyduck]

It is NOT normal. It is illegal. Why should I as a pensioner pay my road tax when you don't ?

Also you will find that any third pary insurance will be nulled unles you have UK road tax at the time.

To SORN a vehicle you must give the address where the vehicle is parked up so that VOSA and the DVLA can check the vehicle.

I know some "preparation" companies do this. I wouldn't go near any company that suggests this Think on and be very careful about running an illegal vehicle in another country.

The only proof of a vehicle being back from outside europe is the stamp fom the customs person on the Carnet.

mike

Its not illegal Mike. As "off road" means off any UK road, which it would be (see below link). There are many vehicles out of the UK for over a year that do this. Insurance should not be dependant on a MOT if its arranged. If they want to know where it is I can tell them. It just won't be in the UK. The carnet doesn't need stamping into the UK only out of the last country that needs one so any (resonably official of course) proof its in the UK will do. Usually easier for the customs stamp but no reason why the MOT wouldn't do.

SORN info on the DVLA

I'm not trying to dodge paying for an MOT or VED as you seem to suggest . The UK have no facility to provide for anything else than SORN a vehicle when off the UK roads. I'd gladly pay the c.£300 for both VED and MOT as it would make life a whole lot easier. So the only option is tell them its gone permanently (which it almost is) and worry about bringing it back into the UK later (if we ever do). I've not got much intention of coming back to the UK full time though. Europe or Northern America might end up being a permanent home and i'm not going to ship it (vehicle) to the UK just to get my carnet bond back when I hand over the last book. The last carnet will be posted from Europe or the USA which is perfectly normal containing the last country exit stamp.

[Godlykepower]

So, you are going to permanently export your vehicle out of the UK then?

How are you going to get your Carnet if you dont have a UK registered vehicle? The DVLA works in conjunction with the RAC now to clamp down on things like this.

The word "permanent" has legal connotations here, and you cant simply say that i'm going away for more than 12 months, therefore I have permanently taken my vehicle abroad.

If you are permanently exporting it, where are you importing it to?

The last carnet will be posted from Europe or the USA which is perfectly normal containing the last country exit stamp.

Considering the fact that 2 weeks ago, you didnt have much of a clue about Carnets, you seem to be a bit of an expert all of a sudden!

The vehicle HAS to be officially stamped back into the UK, and the last country exit stamp will NOT suffice.

[mmgemini]

Its not illegal Mike. As "off road" means off any UK road, which it would be (see below link). There are many vehicles out of the UK for over a year that do this. Insurance should not be dependant on a MOT if its arranged. If they want to know where it is I can tell them. It just won't be in the UK. The carnet doesn't need stamping into the UK only out of the last country that needs one so any (resonably official of course) proof its in the UK will do. Usually easier for the customs stamp but no reason why the MOT wouldn't do.

SORN info on the DVLA

I'm not trying to dodge paying for an MOT or VED as you seem to suggest . The UK have no facility to provide for anything else than SORN a vehicle when off the UK roads. I'd gladly pay the c.£300 for both VED and MOT as it would make life a whole lot easier. So the only option is tell them its gone permanently (which it almost is) and worry about bringing it back into the UK later (if we ever do). I've not got much intention of coming back to the UK full time though. Europe or Northern America might end up being a permanent home and i'm not going to ship it (vehicle) to the UK just to get my carnet bond back when I hand over the last book. The last carnet will be posted from Europe or the USA which is perfectly normal containing the last country exit stamp.

So I haven't done it then. You have asked on here for advice. I have given that advice. SORN a vehicle in the UK and it MUST be at the address given on the SORN form until the SORN is taken off that vehicle. I will willingly tell the DVLA of an untaxed vehicle being used on the public highway, wether that is in the UK or another country.I have had the VED on my Defender checked at three border posts.

FYI the police on the continent now use the same system of checking VED and are linked into the DVLA computer.

I suggest you look at what you could be getting youself into with your ideas.

The Carnet HAS to be STAMPED in the Country that the vehicle is registered in to avoid paying taxes and then the Carnet needs to be returned to the RAC.

mike

[tweetyduck]

So I haven't done it then.

not in question

You have asked on here for advice. I have given that advice. SORN a vehicle in the UK and it MUST be at the address given on the SORN form until the SORN is taken off that vehicle.

not true it can be anywhere. Look at form V890

I will willingly tell the DVLA of an untaxed vehicle being used on the public highway, wether that is in the UK or another country.I have had the VED on my Defender checked at three border posts.

FYI the police on the continent now use the same system of checking VED and are linked into the DVLA computer.

not true the system does not go out of the UK (Data Protection Act). They will check the VED but it does not have to be current (carnet countries). There's only ever an issue once your back in the EU and almost all the EU countries have no interest in the VED. Insurnace is another matter and they can be synonymous.

I suggest you look at what you could be getting youself into with your ideas.

The Carnet HAS to be STAMPED in the Country that the vehicle is registered in to avoid paying taxes and then the Carnet needs to be returned to the RAC.

not true the UK return stamp is only needed if the carnet is incomplete based on its last carnet exit.

mike

[tweetyduck]

So, you are going to permanently export your vehicle out of the UK then?

How are you going to get your Carnet if you dont have a UK registered vehicle? The DVLA works in conjunction with the RAC now to clamp down on things like this.

not true over a year is common (i.e no MOT or VED). Carnets can be "extended" (renewed actually, another fee!)

The word "permanent" has legal connotations here, and you cant simply say that i'm going away for more than 12 months, therefore I have permanently taken my vehicle abroad.

If you are permanently exporting it, where are you importing it to?

Certainly, but no legal obligation exists to reregister in another country. The vehicle can be re-imported at the end. Do you want to know what forms to use? There's no tax or duty due in case you were wondering. I still think SORN is the better way albeit the less officially recomended way. The DVLA want you to export out and then back (lots of forms)

Considering the fact that 2 weeks ago, you didnt have much of a clue about Carnets, you seem to be a bit of an expert all of a sudden!

Presumption. I was asking questions of the experienced. i.e you guys

The vehicle HAS to be officially stamped back into the UK, and the last country exit stamp will NOT suffice.

not true the vehicle does not have to be stamped into UK only stamped out of the last carnet country. Stamping into the UK is a double-up and pure choice (which we'd all do given the chance so there's no arguments) It is not mandatory

[mmgemini]

All I can say is you came on here asking for advice - YOUR WORDS

I and others gave what i understand is GOOD SOUND advice

Seemingly you know better than us. You know more about the Carnet than I do.

You know a LOT more about SORN than I do, I used to regularly SORN vehicles when they came into the scrappy I worked at.

You know a LOT more than I do about travelling abroad.

GET ON WITH IT

mike and margaret

[hobson]

I know for a vehicle to be insured in Europe it has to be road legal in the country of origin, therefore has to have insurance, tax and MOT, all valid and in date.

It's true that a valid MOT is no gaurantee of roadworthiness (except on day of test) and that 'technically' you don't need one for insurance, but i'll gaurantee if you read the insurance small print then it will state the vehicle has to be in roadworthy condition, and if it's not had an MOT over a year, chances are it won't be.

Also, you may be able to argue a few legal grey areas regarding SORN but good luck trying to get an insurance payout on the "ah well, it's off the road.... -in africa" excuse as well.

And European police are not stupid, they know Brits have to have a UK legal vehicle to drive in Europe, and from experience, they do and can check on vehicles registered in the UK, it has nothing to do with the data protection act, that can easily be circumvented using the terrorism act.

best advice; play it safe and make sure you're 100% legal. skimp on the legal side at your peril.

[tweetyduck]

I know for a vehicle to be insured in Europe it has to be road legal in the country of origin, therefore has to have insurance, tax and MOT, all valid and in date.

It's true that a valid MOT is no gaurantee of roadworthiness (except on day of test) and that 'technically' you don't need one for insurance, but i'll gaurantee if you read the insurance small print then it will state the vehicle has to be in roadworthy condition, and if it's not had an MOT over a year, chances are it won't be.

Also, you may be able to argue a few legal grey areas regarding SORN but good luck trying to get an insurance payout on the "ah well, it's off the road.... -in africa" excuse as well.

And European police are not stupid, they know Brits have to have a UK legal vehicle to drive in Europe, and from experience, they do and can check on vehicles registered in the UK, it has nothing to do with the data protection act, that can easily be circumvented using the terrorism act.

best advice; play it safe and make sure you're 100% legal. skimp on the legal side at your peril.

Thanks for that. Trying to play it safe....its not easy!

Just wasted another 3 hours calling the DVLA and various other agencies. Never ending rubbish from the DVLA which they can't back up with statutory Instruments. Conflicting info and conflicting forms.

I will insure my ride based on the VIN not the reg and probably not in the UK. There are some offshore palces that will. Either that or i'll get country specific insurance in different places when on trip.

The vehicle will be registered in the UK (under the silly continuous registration carp) and i now reccon i can get 24 months TAX done before i need to SORN (whilst out of the UK for 23 months). The MOT will run out at month 12 but i'll still have a V5 and a valid TAX disk. This is by overlapping the MOT and TAX. By then we should be in Aus or USA. Only problem with this is the (online) TAX applicaion for year 2 will need UK insurance (or do it over the counter with paper at the PO). Thus i'll have to send MOT and INSURANCE back to the UK to do over the counter (family member). I think i can get a copy insurance document and leave the MOT certificate in the UK so it should be OK over the counter and leave me with origional insurance. This is all still highly dubious as officially export is the only way to go except you can't register the vehicle anywhere else without a perm address. More research is needed.....this isn't what this thread was meant to be about either! oh well.

Not sure if the MOT certifiate would ever be needed at a border but since Mike's spit his dummy out can't ask him.

[AJL]

Interesting Topic reading / watching with interest can i please ask the well informed what VED is

Thanks

[Retroanaconda]

Vehicle Excise Duty.

Commonly known as...car tax

[tweetyduck]

Interesting Topic reading / watching with interest can i please ask the well informed what VED is

Thanks

Road Tax or Vehicle Excise Duty.

beat me to it.....hehe

[AJL]

Vehicle Excise Duty.

Commonly known as...car tax

Doh........ok thanks

[hobson]

Last year we went through all this as we wanted to spend over a year in Europe.

the best we got with car tax after actually VISITING the DVLA was 13 months, and that was a right mess about getting the MOT and tax dates bang on.

As far as insurance, it's a tricky subject, i'd make sure you read and re-read the small print, but bear in mind, insurance companies are (huge!) profit making organisations not charities, and if they can find a reason not to pay out (like the vehicle being in a not listed country or having conflicting insurance with another company) believe me, they will.

you have to remember, you need to comply with the British vehicle laws AS WELL AS the laws in the relevant country you're in.

As far as having to show an MOT, well realistically, they can refuse you entry to the country, which could also lead to you being unable to go back into the other.

best thing to do is imagine the worst case scenario if you didn't have one and they asked for it... because thats what sods law says will happen!

[hobson]

And i don't think Mike has spat his dummy out, he, like everyone else is giving advice based on either direct personal experience or having damn good second hand experience, so it can be a bit annoying when you've been there and done it yourself and you then get questioned about your claims or told you're wrong.

This forum is a fantastic place to get FREE and good advice, so it's best to take it! even though it might not be the most convenient or 'cheapest way to do it' advice.

(IMHO!)