discomikey Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 as in the title, and you probably get this all the time but i have done searches on here and on google and coud only find one thread on another forum on it, but it was pretty decisive. basically my 200tdi disco is misfiring when cold and only revving up to 3000 revs then slowly creeps up to 3500, it also chucks out some white smoke at this point contrery to the usual black smoke, it has been stood for a couple of weeks due to college and axle problems. on the other forum it suggested the fuel sedimenter being full or a little water in the diesel i have been using but i dont know what the answer is and im worried it could be a head gasket or head which i dont like the idea of changing. thanks in advance for any help mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 forgot to add that it still backfires when warm, and smokes but it does rev up to the limiter then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 as in the title, and you probably get this all the time but i have done searches on here and on google and coud only find one thread on another forum on it, but it was pretty decisive. basically my 200tdi disco is misfiring when cold and only revving up to 3000 revs then slowly creeps up to 3500, it also chucks out some white smoke at this point contrery to the usual black smoke, it has been stood for a couple of weeks due to college and axle problems. on the other forum it suggested the fuel sedimenter being full or a little water in the diesel i have been using but i dont know what the answer is and im worried it could be a head gasket or head which i dont like the idea of changing. thanks in advance for any help mikey Black is burning oil, white is normally unburnt diesel. The misfire (or "not-fire" if you like) will cause this, but what is causing the not-fire is the question. Low compression (rings, head gasket, valves, head), poor timing (timing belt, poor timing belt fitting) and sticking injector(s) would all be culprits, as would a dead glow plug or two. Small amounts of water in the filter / sedimentor won't cause this, and is easily drained off anyway (it's designed to cope). Large amounts of water will restrict the fuel flow (throttling the revs) but you will also be at risk of rusting the injector pump and getting water in the cylinders. Does it eventually recover and run properly? Or is it a bag of spanners forever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 it is a bag of spanners forever lol, ill first replace the heater plugs then and see if that helps, also ill get new injectors, then ill probably not e ale to fit them until next week, then if that does not work, im guessing the all too common timing problem, or the head gasket has gone. :S cheers mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 had a similar problem on a mates disco when we did an engine swap, after much head scratching we decided to re-time the thing up, did that and it was perfect. The timing has to be STOP ON to run correctly but i don't see how the timing would alter if just stood, unless something is amiss with the tensioner, other wise glow plugs would be the 1st thing id check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 ive been talking to someone i would account to as being an expert in land rovers, he sais that it may well be a split turbo hose, buggered turbo, as tis would mean not enough air was getting in to run properly, so would not burn etc, so i will check this and rplace heater plugs next weekend. mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 It won't be the heater plugs - they only help start the engine, not keep it running. Split hose/poor air supply would make it gutless/smoke. With the engine running - crack each injector in turn and listen for any effect on the engine. A faulty cylinder will be less noticeable when you crack it's injector. Once the cylinder has been identified - swap the injector with one of the others and see if the fault stays in the same place or moves with the injector. If the fault stays with the same cylinder, then head off (yay! ). If it moves with the injector, then the injector is at fault. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share Posted October 3, 2009 right, my college lecturer suggested cracking off all the injectors aswell, you can hear a difference in the running in each cylinder, which suggests each cylinder is wunning, no mayonnaise anywhere. all my checks suggest that all is well, everything points to air in the fuel system or a bad lift pump. the intake hoses are not split, they are pressurised, and there is a definate whistle to the exhaust note. any more help? mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 You can take the lift pump out of the equation by taking the pipe to the fuel filter straight from a fuel can on the wing. This will also rule out tank pickup or fuel line issues. Have you checked the timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 i havent checked the timing, i it easy to do? ill look on my RAVE disc in a bit, but it only covers 300tdi's not 200tdis. they are more or less exactly the same so i would assume i could work it out from that? mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 hmm, okay heres my reportings, this weekend im going to take off the rocker cover, see if theres any unusal goings on in there, check the clearances etc and maintain them. then replace the fuel ffilter, ill also check the pump timing, and if all else fails, take te head off, look at the valves, pistons. Then if that doesent work ill replace the piston rings, and do everything to checlk the right compression (as best as can without compression test) and new head gasket. inow definately know it is not the head gasket, checked all symptoms, and the smoke is fuel not steam! mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Eh? Why are you going into the engine to do expensive things without doing a compression test? It is dead easy to do and will tell you if there is a problem or not - without spending any money and in a lot less time. If the compression is fine then it is pointless looking further at rings etc, and if it isn't, it may well be a problem on only one cylinder and a compression test will tell which one(s) are at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I'll put money on a fuel problem.... Try running it on fuel from a can on the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglad Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Have you had the fuel sedimenter apart? This is something that is supposed to be regularly service but due to it's location it is rarely looked at. It'll cost you nothing but 15mins to try and it could solve you bad running problems - if it doesn't at least you eliminated it from the equation. The fuel sedimenter is a filter sized housing located on the chassis off-side, just in front of the rear wheel on the inside of the chassis main rail. You will need an 11mm ring spanner to undo the fixing bolt which is in the middle of the top plate. Undo this bolt completely and the bowl should just come away. However sometimes they are stuck on their rubber seals so a gentle tap with a rubber mallet or similar will ease. Once open you'll probably find inside the bowl all sorts of interesting jelly-like pondlife!!! Clean it all out and reinstall the bowl. Start the engine and run on a high tickover until she is running clean again - usually just a couple of mins. Having taken the sedimenter out of the equation and if she's still running roughly I would replace the fuel filter, replace the air filter (both cheap to buy from Paddocks)remove the intercooler and clean with white spirit or petrol, at the same time check the insides of the rubber turbo hoses for internal delamination, errrrrrrr can't think of anything else just right now Good luck Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 hey guys, ill give you 1 pence if you can guess what it was, it wasnt the sedimenter btw. its been bypassed. mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglad Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 hey guys, ill give you 1 pence if you can guess what it was, it wasnt the sedimenter btw. its been bypassed. mikey OK Mikey, we're all ears - what was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 OK Mikey, we're all ears - what was it? Seagull in the air intake? Oompa loompas in the injection pump? Tank full of petrol? Am I close ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 the fuel filter was slightly full of carp however at the top of a hill today it started steaming much out the bonnet, we got out quick and switched it off, thought it was buggered lol, just the pipe going from the bulkhead somewhere into the back end of the head had split. fix it, top up. job's a fish. mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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