Volvo Engine conversion...need some information

[RobSmith]

Hi All,

I am concidering installing one of the Volvo engines I have floating around into my 1972 Series 3 landrover which has its original petrol engine siezed solid.

I want to use the turbocharged version of the volvo engine as it is much nicer to drive and has proved to be more economical than the normally aspirated ones I have had.

My main concern is that I might break the landrover gearbox.

I can get dyno curves from the chaps in the US who like to modify and 'dyno-race' their volvos.

Can anyone provide a revs / torque curve for a landrover engine the standard gearbox is happy with? That engine might be the rover V8, 200TDi or something else the gearbox is fairly happy with.

I can then compare the two and see if I am way out in the explosion zone or if it might be fine.

Kind Regards

Rob

[RobSmith]

I have just been outside and found the gearbox number..

S

95102814C

I am not sure if that helps tell you what the gearbox is. I shall have a search now to see if I can find out.

Rob

[RobSmith]

Here are a couple of dyno graphs from one of the Volvo forums of the same engine in various states of tune without much in the way of engine mods.

Turbo at about 15 psi...

It seems they all follow a similar trend.

I would keep my engine down at near stock performance so about 170hp and about 220ftlb of torque.

I have found the gearbox number on my series 3 gearbox and it is marked S for syncromeshed gears and C.

Does anyone have any ideas about the likelyhood of the gearbox withstanding this?

Rob

[RobSmith]

Hi All,

I have found this on another web site relating to the DVLA points system..

Chassis/bodyshell 5 points

Suspension 2 points

Axles 2 points

Transmission 2 points

Steering Assembly 2 points

Engine 1 point

It seems 8 points are needed to comply with the historic status.

I have not been able to find an official source for this information. This was found here:

http://www.classicroverforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=6964

If I were to install the Volvo B230 engine it would be only 30cc bigger than the original landrover engine. I would be deducted 1 point for the engine change. I am not sure how they judge it having a turbo bolted to the side of it that near doubles the power output

If I were to replace the gearbox to take the extra power then that is another 2 points so I would be down to 11 points.

That seems ok to me.

Does anyone have an official source for this points scoring system?

Rob

[TheRecklessEngineer]

I can't provide curves, but I've used various V8s in front of the series gearbox without it blowing up.

I'd say with a bit of mechanical sympathy you'd probably be ok.

On the other hand, if you use an LT77 or R380, they are somewhat stronger and you will have a 5th gear too - I'd expect you'd find the extra gear very useful.

[Retroanaconda]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_10014199

Bear in mind this system is only brought into use if your vehicle is inspected, having been deemed to be radically altered from original specification. I don't think personally that changing the engine and gearbox constitutes a radical alteration, it happens all the time. If you were chopping the chassis about, changing axles, fitting PAS etc, then I think that would require inspection under the above points system.

Good luck with your build

[FridgeFreezer]

My Series box lived happily behind a 3.9 EFI, which if factory figures are to be believed, was ~180hp and ~230lb/ft, although I imagine the V8 is a lot lazier than a turbo'd Volvo lump.

Then again, when I pulled the gearbox out Mr Morfee had it and ragged it senseless for a while longer behind another V8 as well.

I'm not sure I'd count a swap from one sort of LR gearbox to another sort of LR gearbox as losing points, but then I'm not from VOSA

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Then again, when I pulled the gearbox out Mr Morfee had it and ragged it senseless for a while longer behind another V8 as well.

I most certainly did. Mark finally killed it by dragging a fork lift out of a ditch. Even then when I pulled the box to bits I couldn't find anything wrong with it. I think it got jammed in two gears or somesuch.

[RobSmith]

I most certainly did. Mark finally killed it by dragging a fork lift out of a ditch. Even then when I pulled the box to bits I couldn't find anything wrong with it. I think it got jammed in two gears or somesuch.

That ties up with what a friend has told me. He said that they usually break at low speeds.

As for the Volvo lump being more 'whizzy' than a lazy V8 I would think there is not much in it.

The volvo lump is a heavy lump with heavy internals and a big heafty flywheel.

I think all this rotating mass on the later engines was going someway towards smoothing out the lumpyness of a 4 cylinder.

The latest engine has a dual mass flywheel which is realy heavy and tends to fall to bits so I will be using the much more common 'dog-dish' flywheel. Dog-dish is just a way of identifying that flywheel that just looks like a dog dish when laid down.

Rob

[Smokey88]

As has been previously stated, mechanical sympathy is the key - if you drop the clutch at 4000rpm something is going to give. If you're lucky it'll be a halfshaft, if not...?! I can't see why a B230 would cause difficulty in a landy - in fact its something I considered a while ago (I am a Volvophile having had 8 to date, mainly redblocks. My current daily driver is an 850R

I'd start with a B230FK given the choice - you can always up the boost if required. Remember its identical to the B230FT mechanically - its just the turbo actuator and the ECU that is different. The B230FK has a more torquey set of maps so although the headline figure is only 135bhp, it drives like a decent 2.5. But you probably know this so I'll shut up

Let us know how you get on!

[Snagger]

I have a Tdi, and the SIII transmission seems fine. I'd be reluctant to fit anything with more torque than a 3.5 V8 or Tdi, but driven cautiously it should be fine.

You will lose the single VIN poon for the engine regardless of performance or turbo charging. Fitting a later type of gear box would lose both points for the transmission. You can afford to lose those points as long as you don't modify the chassis - I suspect the DVLA will not be concerned about new engine or transmission mounts, but moving outriggers or cross members will lose the chassis' five points. This is where fitting power assisted steering is a problem; the Heystee hydraulicram kit just btsmpn and uses the existing system, so loses no points from the steering or chassis, but the more common RRC/Defended steering retrofit requires significant alteration of the chassis's front cross member and replaces rather than suppements the original steering. Fitting LR PAS costs you seven points, which would probably be too much in conjunction with other alterations.

[FridgeFreezer]

Looking at the Volvo dyno charts I don't think you have much to worry about, the V8 makes ~200 torques from just off idle, it seems to be lumpy torque (eg big diesels) and abuse that kill LR transmissions rather than smooth power used carefully.

[RobSmith]

Thanks for the replys.

Thanks Smokey88. I am glad you are a reblock fan too. A B230FK is what is in my 940 now but after a turbo failure got another from a B230FT so is a B230FK but with a bit more boost than it should have. That was not intentional it is just what was easily obtainable, unbolted and bolted on without much finese. It also does not look much like a nice redblock either. It looks more like a neglected black, smelly, oily, leaky block

I am going to go for a B230 setup. It will either be a B230FK or FT setup on about 10PSI boost. I will possibly build it around a B230FB block as the normally aspirated engines do not get the same side thrust on the pistons the turbo engines get and hence the bores and blocks are a better start point. 1992 or later engines also got piston cooling oil squirters.

This is my previous recipe for the engine I have in the shed although I will now 'de-tune' the recipe to a standard B230 bottom end and change other things and keep it more sensible.....

1992 Penta AQ151C block with oil squirters added. 96mm bore 86mm stroke = 2500cc

Forged Penta crankshaft

Penta Pistons from the AQ151C

531 head rebuilt with sodium filled valves from Turbo head.

Compression ratio somewhere around 9:1 and head matched to block.

LH2.4

0 280 213 012 3" Air Mass Meter

E5ZE-A3B injectors

Std Fuel pressure regulator

TD04HL-15G flat flange turbo keeping the standard intake bypass valve fitted.

Custom exhaust through large free flowing cat and large free flowing silencer.

90+ ported manifold

Standard 940TDi clutch setup.

Clutch disc 940TDi, organic, 20 splines, 228mm, Sachs p/n: 1862 468 031

Pressure plate, stock, 228mm, Sachs p/n: 3082 204 033

Side distributor.

MBC set to about 10 PSI boost pressure

98+ octane fuel.

0280 000 984 ECU or 983 with Freds chip

0227 400 207 EZK with Freds chip

NGK BP7ES plugs

'A' Cam although I now have a 'V' cam I could use

Lightened Dog-dish flywheel with LH2.4 drillings.

Aftermarket intercooler.

I will keep you posted

Rob

[RobSmith]

I have previously 'pruned' a Volvo 940 wiring loom down to the engine wiring..

The engine wiring.. (It is not too bad once you trim it down to its bare bones)

The remainder... (this does not show quite how much there was and how heavy it is too)

Rob

[Smokey88]

...This is my previous recipe for the engine I have in the shed although I will now 'de-tune' the recipe to a standard B230 bottom end and change other things and keep it more sensible.....

1992 Penta AQ151C block with oil squirters added. 96mm bore 86mm stroke = 2500cc

Forged Penta crankshaft

Penta Pistons from the AQ151C

531 head rebuilt with sodium filled valves from Turbo head.

Compression ratio somewhere around 9:1 and head matched to block.

LH2.4

0 280 213 012 3" Air Mass Meter

E5ZE-A3B injectors

Std Fuel pressure regulator

TD04HL-15G flat flange turbo keeping the standard intake bypass valve fitted.

Custom exhaust through large free flowing cat and large free flowing silencer.

90+ ported manifold

Standard 940TDi clutch setup.

Clutch disc 940TDi, organic, 20 splines, 228mm, Sachs p/n: 1862 468 031

Pressure plate, stock, 228mm, Sachs p/n: 3082 204 033

Side distributor.

MBC set to about 10 PSI boost pressure

98+ octane fuel.

0280 000 984 ECU or 983 with Freds chip

0227 400 207 EZK with Freds chip

NGK BP7ES plugs

'A' Cam although I now have a 'V' cam I could use

Lightened Dog-dish flywheel with LH2.4 drillings.

Aftermarket intercooler...

What are you planning on doing with the Landy once you've dropped this in? Some of it seems unnecessary - heres what I did with my last redblock'd 940 Classic:

531 head with turbo valves

A cam

15G @ 13psi (norm) and 15psi (RR)

2.5in custom stainless exhaust

Group A cat

Freds chips

fully synth oil & tranny fluid (Amsoil)

K&N air filter in std airbox

I got a RR result of just over 220bhp with that. Thats without a rebore on a 95k mile otherwise standard engine using Shell Vpower. With the work you're planning, I reckon you're going to be giving it some serious welly - and I think the gearbox is going to strip a lot of gears - assuming the halfshafts don't pop first

[RobSmith]

What are you planning on doing with the Landy once you've dropped this in? Some of it seems unnecessary - heres what I did with my last redblock'd 940 Classic:

531 head with turbo valves

A cam

15G @ 13psi (norm) and 15psi (RR)

2.5in custom stainless exhaust

Group A cat

Freds chips

fully synth oil & tranny fluid (Amsoil)

K&N air filter in std airbox

I got a RR result of just over 220bhp with that. Thats without a rebore on a 95k mile otherwise standard engine using Shell Vpower. With the work you're planning, I reckon you're going to be giving it some serious welly - and I think the gearbox is going to strip a lot of gears - assuming the halfshafts don't pop first

Yup,

I mentioned that some of my list was overkill.

I will be doing very much what you listed yourself.

It is interesting the big difference in veiws on the gearbox being able to take it.

I shall not be driving it hard. I like the way my current 940 Celebration drives. I rarely give it any welly.. I like just having the lazy power available. That is a 207k mile engine so I will not be using that one in the landrover so will hunt around for a good one.

Rob

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Megasquirt it. Go on, you know you want to!

[RobSmith]

I am thinking I will put in a standard Volvo B230FB engine to start with.

That is a 2.3L normally aspirated engine.

The engine is externally the same and much of the wiring the same between N/A and turbocharged.

It simplifies a few things and the turbo version could come later.

I have a great deal of work to do on the rest of the landrover so simplifying the engine installation helps a bit.

The big pile of parts is now sitting at my father-in-laws waiting for me to go and collect them.

Rob

[SirAxlerod]

Did this ever come for Fruition?

I had a Discovery, and am Craving another, but I have less than 0 desire to run the 4.0/4,6.

And I happen to be daily driving a. 945 with a B230ft.

Stock horse and torque isn't so far from the 4.0, and close enough to the 4.6... That I think I could be satisfied. Especially if I aced the ZF autotragic for a Manuel Trannie.