Oil Leak Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hi all. I've had an on going problem which is now getting worse/ happening more often. Start her up in the morning, drive on, as soon as i take my foot off the peddal a puff of smoke plumes out. Feel a slight engine hessitation at the same time. Engine can be cold or hot. i.e it can happen further into the journey when stuck in traffic. The smoke is greyish. It is a 300tdi with 132k on the clock. I have so far - Changed the oil + filter, air filter, fuel filter, drained the sedimenter, de egr, de cat, done the valve clearances. It's not using much oil - half a ltr in 1500miles. Minimal coolant loss, mainly through the P gasket. I have a new lift pump that i'll fit at the weekend. Anyone any other ideas please? Injectors? Valve seals? It's not delaminating intercooler hoses, I checked them. + also cleaned out the intercooler and that engine breather pot on the crankcase... cheers J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil B Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I know my road car let's off a plume of blacksmoke on let off (decatted) although prob bears no relevance to fuelling or engine wellness might be relevent to the decatting maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayur Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 hmmm interesting problem try opening the boost controller on the top of the pump (DONT FORGET TO MARK THE DIAPHRAGM POSITION ) and clean any oil on it and oil that might be stuck in the pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landowner Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Could be air getting in the system somewhere or maybe the waste gate is sticking slightly when you let off the throttle. Renew leak off pipes anyway, always a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil B Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Could be air getting in the system somewhere or maybe the waste gate is sticking slightly when you let off the throttle. Renew leak off pipes anyway, always a good idea. Aha does actually sound like wastegate some of my machines fitted with external wastegates puff out smoke as and when when under load and then also once the throttle is released after revving a plume comes out, that might be it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrycrabbe Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I had this exact problem. Turned out to be a pin hole in one of the spill return pipes that link the injectors together and take any excess fuel back to the pump. The hole in mine was where the acoustic cover had rubbed against it. Looked like a proper "James Bond" style smoke screen on mine Replacement pipes are available, I think mine was under £20 for the whole section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oil Leak Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 thanks for the replies guys. I wont be able to have a look until the weekend. Will it be easy to tell if the wastegate/actuator is sticking? And if it is sticking what can be done?? I have renewed the leak off pipes that go from injector to injector, should I renew others? Just to clarify the problem - it doesn't happen every time off the throttle, but may happen 4 or 5 times in a 15mile journey. And you can overt it by changing up a gear just as she hessitates, thus avoiding the smoke.. Also mpg isn't great 26-27ish.. Thanks J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 when was the last time you changed the cam belt? smoke on over run, flat spot on the power when off the turbo, bad mpg, and i bet it misses abit when first starting, and prob takes a bit of cranking to get it going on very cold mornings? I would put my money on your problem being the timing being out... it sound like its slightly retarded and pre fueling paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oil Leak Posted November 19, 2010 Author Share Posted November 19, 2010 Interesting...... It is a bit slow to start on a cold morning. I just put this down to glow plugs. Ordered 4 new ones, they've turned up in the post today. I'll fit them tomorrow, then let you know the result.. I bought the disco 2-3 months ago, there is a receipt for a timing belt kit dated last year. Funny cuz when I got her I had suspicions that the tiing belt was out, because she was very reluctant power wise, basically didn't like to be driven over 1500rpm. However, after a good service, loosing the egr, doing the valve clearances, and the biggest improvement - loosing the cat, she now has good power, and revs/drives quite freely throughout the rev range. So i've not been considering the timing. Should I? as she is running sweet except for this smoking prob?? It does seem that the more i'm of the throttle, either parked up/ stuck in traffic/ or after a 2mile down hill i do, then the hessitence smoke comes. So it could seem that something is getting stuck whilst off the throttle.. THanks J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 300's and 200's really should not need the glow plugs in this country, well... not on the sunny south coast anyway The symptoms you describe would make me look at the timing and by the sounds of it needing a "good" service when you got it would also make me think about changing the cam belt as part of the course.... hope this help Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 we had this on a very high mileage Defender. It was a more-or-less blocked intercooler, full of oil and crud from a failed turbo a while before. What happens is that when you accelerate the injection pump senses the boost and adjusts the fuel accordingly. When you lift off the pressure from the turbo to the intercooler does not drop as fast as it should so the injector overfuels for a second. We had to soak the intercooler in engine cleaner over a weekend to really clean it out. You are supposed to clean out the intercooler every 45 000 miles but very few people do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oil Leak Posted November 21, 2010 Author Share Posted November 21, 2010 Interesting... thanks.. I cleaned the intercooler out a couple of weeks back and it didn't seem gunked up at all. I remember the inlet manifold was pretty sooted up, it might be worth me cleaning that out at some point. There's not much new for me to report with the situation at the mo. I've had the new lift pump on the vehicle twice now having a home mechanics nightmare! First time all fitted, dropped an olive, could I find it had to put the old pump back on and purchase a replacement olive.. Ok, fit the pump again today, go to tighten the fittings - find the new olive outside diameter too large for the female fixing!!!!!!! arrrrrgghh - new pump off, old pump on. I'll source another olive tomorrow.. The only other thing is - I thought i'd see what happens if I floor it when the smoke comes, I did, complete fog out of white smoke filling the road behind...??? Oh yeah moose - I fitted the new glow plugs and there is a frost -2 forcast tonight, so i'll see how she starts in the morning and let you know.. cheers J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil B Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Ooh White smoke oopsie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oil Leak Posted November 22, 2010 Author Share Posted November 22, 2010 White smoke is not necessarily as bad as you may think. THis link is very informative on diesel smoke - http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel-engine-smoke.php Moose - New glow plugs made bugger all difference to cold start this morning. I try and get this lift pump finally fitted. If that doesent help i'll have to go down the timing belt route like you suggested.. The only reason i'm not straight in there is because i've never checked/adjusted/renewed a timing belt before. Not sure if it may be beyond me, special tools, time, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 If it feels a bit breathless above low speeds - you said reluctant to rev - but Ok up to about 2000rpm - I'd suspect the cam timing was maybe a tooth out. I have a 300 that just felt a bit tired - it didn't like going over about 55-60; it had had a cambelt fitted by the well known independent from whom I bought it, and developed a bit of an oil leak round the crank pulley. When I took it apart to replace the seal, I could see the camshaft was out, so new belt etc, and voila, chalk and cheese. You have to take the cover off to see I'm afraid, I don't know if you can check any other way. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Moose - New glow plugs made bugger all difference to cold start this morning. I try and get this lift pump finally fitted. If that doesent help i'll have to go down the timing belt route like you suggested.. The only reason i'm not straight in there is because i've never checked/adjusted/renewed a timing belt before. Not sure if it may be beyond me, special tools, time, etc.. Its not as hard as it sound esp on a 300tdi as you dont need to remove the water pump.. there are lots of pic guides on here. Your hardest bit will prob be the main crank pulley bolt I needed to use a very big air gun on my 300 the other day as even the beaker bar on the chassis trick wouldn't shift it. special tools are not really needed I keep meaning to machine some timing locking tools up but never get round to it and all ways end u using bolts/drill bits/what ever is to hand... Does the engine miss at all when first reved at a cold start and gut less until the turbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landowner Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Does the engine miss at all when first reved at a cold start and gut less until the turbo? Sorry to hijack this thread but.. Mine does miss at about 2000rpm and blue smokes at that. Cant find out what it is, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oil Leak Posted November 22, 2010 Author Share Posted November 22, 2010 Yes sometimes it does miss a bit. Idles lower too, less rpm than when it's warm, but it aint lumpy. Wish I had some time to get this lift pump fitted, then we could rule that out.. maybe wednesday. I was thinking about the belt being a tooth out. I would have thought that I would have had constant/continuous running problem, rather than one that has been slowly getting worse over the weeks. i.e it would have always run carp rather than this - cough and smoke once, then once again two weeks later, then every week, then every other day, now virtually every time driven - you get my drift?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 I was thinking about the belt being a tooth out. I would have thought that I would have had constant/continuous running problem, rather than one that has been slowly getting worse over the weeks. i.e it would have always run carp rather than this - cough and smoke once, then once again two weeks later, then every week, then every other day, now virtually every time driven - you get my drift?? i cant say that timing is def your problem but it does sound like it and you have pretty much covered every thing else the fact its get worse is because the belt has stretched and so making what was slight miss alignment a bigger one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Mine does miss at about 2000rpm and blue smokes at that. Cant find out what it is, Have you check the timing ? cam belt condition? If have found that having the timing spot on and slightly out can have as much a performance difference as tuning the pump up but with less smoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oil Leak Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 UPDATE Smoking more than ever today. Also feeling very sluggish, people rave on about how great the 300tdi is, this aint great! So i popped into garage on way home, booked a timing belt change for next friday. The new lift pump didn't help at all. It's actually starting really well, 1 or 2 seconds after turning the key even with this zero degree weather. The new plugs have helped , the first time slow to start must have been because i'd had the lift pump on and off the night before. hope fully the new belt will help cheers J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oil Leak Posted December 6, 2010 Author Share Posted December 6, 2010 UPDATE Absolutely gutted . I told the garage to do the lot concerning the cam belt. End of the day picked it up with a hefty hefty bill of £280! (Yes I now remember why I try and learn to do things myself ) Anyway, no difference, still smokes, still a slight misfire... Maybe I should concentrate on the misfire. Go back to basics - lack of fuel? lack of air? Properly empty the sedimenter. Recheck the air intake... I am growing to love this car - but arrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Anyway, no difference, still smokes, still a slight misfire... Maybe I should concentrate on the misfire. Go back to basics - lack of fuel? lack of air? Properly empty the sedimenter. Recheck the air intake... I am growing to love this car - but arrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh...... Thats Bad luck what did the garage say about the belt... did it look like it needed replacing? did you ask them to check the timing? might be worth having a look at the injectors, or finding a second hand injector pump. hope you get it sorted soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oil Leak Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 hmmmm... the car is running a bit better since the belt change. there is also less of that harsh exhaust stench (unburnt fuel?), the one that irritates your eyes. that seems to have gone, so maybe the old belt was a tooth out. the car will still smoke at 2000rpm. the good news is that it will now always smoke when revs at 2k rpm, so it may now be easier to find the cause. I think I read that if i loosen the fuel to supply to a single injector, rev, and if the engine then does not smoke i've found the culprit?? Am i on the right lines here?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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