Overland Trailer Fabrication/parts info.

[Sirocco]

Hi All,

Thought this was the best place to ask my plethora of questions regarding the fabrication of my Sankey based trailer.

As the title I purchased GB Mud's (Chris) trailer around this time last year where its been sat at my parents place until recently (has to get rid of the IIa Lightweight 1st!). see link: Chris's Trailer build

my questions are basically structural and design adding to what Chris started.

As a bit of background we have done a fair bit of travelling in our 90 and feel it is suitable for our needs (2 people) we are planning a trip across Europe/Caucasus/Central Asia/Russia/Mongolia/Siberia and ship to Australia. so need the extra payload (rather than space) the trailer will be kept light with a payload around maximum 350-400kg. The trailer will need to be robust, simple, easy to fix and cope with extreme cold/heat.

This thread is not aimed to be a build thread like Jason'sthread here just somewhere to ask questions and get ideas from people. I will post up pictures though

I know what works and I know what I want (kit wise) for our trip so this thread wont get bogged down on the merits/pitfalls of roof tents, gas stoves, spare wheels etc.

so, what do I want the trailer to do?

Carry spares/fluids, camp chairs/table, full galley for cooking inc small sink, 50-60L water tank with pump and filter. Maggiolina RTT on top and possibly the Hannibal Awning. We carry this stuff in the 90 so its just a matter of transfering it to the trailer and only having clothes/food/fridge in the 90.

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At the moment I am just painting up the chassis, fitted 3 new KM2's taking of the Grivelly catches (****e) fitting overcentre catches (all SS) etc.

The next stage will be building the racking for the rear and roof rack for the RTT.

The rear will just incorporate a sliding draw system for some 600x400mm boxes (I want to use boxes where possible so everything is removable, should it need to be removed for cleaning, un-bogging trailer etc.) so I am looking at box section steel welded together and bolted through the steel floor of the trailer body. what size and thickness should I be using? I was thinking 25mmx25mmx2mm.

Probably the most important design and structural integrity lies in the roof rack. Mounted to this will be the 60kg RTT and a folding table (10kg). Possibly waffle boards (16kg) but I have not thought too much about this. For this rack I was thinking 40mm box section 3mm thick? I think 50mm may be too big, but am I wrong?

design wise I was going to run 2 lengths across the length of the roof with 3-4 sections running across these with gussets/support welded. Probably wise to have a few 3mm thick tabs with reinforcement underneath bolted through the trailer skin. other options were tabs/supports running over the edge and bolted on the vertical side of the trailer to help spread the stress.

on a slightly different note, I have a bunch of bolt holes that need filling. whats the best way to do it? weld it up? what technique would you use to do this? just weld and flat back or am I missing something.

Appologies for the long post, but I really need the best advice on this as I cant have the whole thing falling apart in the Siberian Tiaga

I will be running other ideas past you all as things progress.

thanks for reading.

some photo's attached, others are on our FB page here

G

[twizzle]

hi try this site

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/forums/42-Expedition-Trailers

i have had many of good things off this forum

Twizzle

[Sirocco]

Thanks Twizzle, Allready there (I have more post counts on EXPO than I do here )

I have asked specific questions there in the past but got no joy. They seem more keen on build threads, building from scratch than specifics. I may revive my previous trailer thread there though.

I was asking here as I know there is a great knowledge base around structural design from comp vehicles etc *hint hint

G

[Guest]

Just looked at your drawings, but I can't really see the bracing etc so I can't really comment on the material required as would need to see drawings/plans and how it's joined etc, however a few things I have learnt lately Is that a trailer takes a hell of a pounding! more than you think and I think more than the Landy as it bounces around a bit more.

I over engineered most things and am glad I did, as I am finding myself re-doing the things that I didn't build well enough. I found that the batteries broke their mountings so I need to put them into trays and fix them down again, the Fiamma 75L tank when full is 76kg and again broke its wooden bulkhead although didn't move too much so I need to fasten that down better.I guess I am saying that you need to over engineer everything so even if it seems OTT at the moment will stand you in good stead later, also tie everything down to stop it moving and causing damage to other things.

Boxes work really well although I wouldn't put them in sliding draws just onto brackets I would also make sure that you can secure them with straps or similar to ensure they don't move around and break the brackets, I found some great tie down straps on ebay really well made which I used to accomplish that.

When planning your kitchen my tip would be to ensure that you don't build it/place it too high, I was going to have mine at the side originally but to clear the wheels it would have made it far to high for practical cooking, (being able to see in the pan!!) luckily I realised this before building it and had time to change things.

looking at height etc if you can keep it under 2m and your 90 is under 2m then you will save money on the ferry and toll roads etc as 2m seems to be the cut off for most charging. Therefore if you do add the awning I would stick it on telescopic arms or similar, there are lots of trailer in the US that do it this way.

What holes do you want to fill? The holes in the chassis that I was not using, I plugged with grommets my figuring was that I may need the hole later to fix something to and a grommet would be lighter than filling it with weld.

I read loads about trailers overland builds etc before building mine and one thing that I did note is if you want to take it to Russia you will need some sort of log book for the trailer I made one that looks fairly official with the military vin number as the reg. It's surprising what a couple of hours on the computer can come up with I then printed it onto some heavyweight paper and will use this when I take it further afield.

Good luck with your build/re-build.

Jason.

[Sirocco]

Hi Jason, Thanks for the input. Yes I got carried away on Sketch-up, will need to do a seperate drawing. Its basically 2 box sections overlain by 3-4 box sections at a 90degree angle.

I understand the need to build tough and prevent movement. With the boxes I was just going to use some sections of angle welded to the frame of the drawer.

The bits about trailers in Russia was probably me. I couldn't find anything on the net. I have emailed the Russian Embassy, The RAC (Paul Gowen) etc and cannot get any joy out of anyone. After speaking to a good friend I think I know my plan of attack.

With regards to trailer pounding I was considering removing some leaves from the springs as my payload with be considerably less than 750kg. Have you thought about doing this? again something I couldn't find much info on.

G

[Guest]

Hi Jason, Thanks for the input. Yes I got carried away on Sketch-up, will need to do a seperate drawing. Its basically 2 box sections overlain by 3-4 box sections at a 90degree angle.

I understand the need to build tough and prevent movement. With the boxes I was just going to use some sections of angle welded to the frame of the drawer.

The bits about trailers in Russia was probably me. I couldn't find anything on the net. I have emailed the Russian Embassy, The RAC (Paul Gowen) etc and cannot get any joy out of anyone. After speaking to a good friend I think I know my plan of attack.

With regards to trailer pounding I was considering removing some leaves from the springs as my payload with be considerably less than 750kg. Have you thought about doing this? again something I couldn't find much info on.

G

I know how easy it is to get carried away with Google sketch up!! I have read the Russian thing on many forums Here is just one as lots of countries including France and Spain now have trailer registration for larger trailers, so I thought I should have/make one in-case a confused gendarme wanted to see it, giving them something seemed easier than explaining it was not required in the UK, so I just made one based upon a V5 layout using the military reg.

I did look at the springs and removing some, the chap at MyWay changes the chassis on his short trailer and removes some springs, but as I want the capacity I decided to leave my as is you never know what you need to carry!! The way I figure it is Sankey trailers probably had a lot of thought go into the design and their over engineering, and this design has been proven to be good as a 20 year old trailer is still as good as new despite being the property of the British armed forces!! so don't mess with what works just build your design equally as strong and you can't go wrong!!

Jason.

[Sirocco]

Yes Lee put me onto it. my other username is Griffdowg. I also posted on the HUBB.

I hear what your saying with the springs. I think for my build it will be worth it as the payload will be drastically reduced. I think it would be better to have a well set-up spring/shock assembly than to have one thats too stiff transmitting all the vibration to the structure and picking out my weak welds! Running a trailer at 50% or less than its maximum capacity also has other benifits but I wont go into these here.

G

[inaine]

weld the holes up, if ali then mig or tig, if steel or s/s then mig or tig. Can you weld? if not get it done.

as for your rack it sounds ok but with more ties to the trailer to stop the flexing up and down.

[Sirocco]

weld the holes up, if ali then mig or tig, if steel or s/s then mig or tig. Can you weld? if not get it done.

as for your rack it sounds ok but with more ties to the trailer to stop the flexing up and down.

Thanks Inaine. Its zinctec steel. can I weld yes and no! I can get them strong, they dont look great and sometimes there is a bit of slag in there. welding with arc.

design of rack attached. extra gussets to add strength. size and thickness suggestions appreciated.

G

[Larry]

little tip if your a messy welder like me!

Place a flat surfaced piece of brass on the other side of the hole you are welding up. this way you have a nice flush surface to keep your weld neat as the weld will not penetrate the brass! and then you only have to flap disc one side!

[landroversforever]

little tip if your a messy welder like me!

Place a flat surfaced piece of brass on the other side of the hole you are welding up. this way you have a nice flush surface to keep your weld neat as the weld will not penetrate the brass! and then you only have to flap disc one side!

I like that! I guess that it needs to be a reasonable size lump so as to dissipate the heat so it doesn't melt!

[Sirocco]

little tip if your a messy welder like me!

Place a flat surfaced piece of brass on the other side of the hole you are welding up. this way you have a nice flush surface to keep your weld neat as the weld will not penetrate the brass! and then you only have to flap disc one side!

Thanks for that, I did a google after posting here and came up with the same thing, its an excellent idea.

still a little stumped on my rack design though. Going to measure up tonight and head over to a supplier and get a price on the materials. Im thinking tack it up and give it to someone who can weld properly to finish it off but im still not sure.

G

[Guest]

Have you considered making the rack removable? welding tabs or stubs to the trailer that will take the rack this way you can remove the tent when needed maybe switch it to the 90 or for winter storage it could also give you options if you wanted to use the trailer roof area for something else Oztent or bikes you could make a second rack or carrier to take them.

Jason.

[Sirocco]

not really considered it, but it will only be held on with bolted tabs though.

thinking about it, It would be easy to remove the tent and use those standard bike racks across the top 4 bars. Maybe thats something we can do when we get to Aus. The rack is designed 100% for our trip though, no compromise. It needs to work, but most of all be strong.

G

[Sirocco]

I just ordered 2x sections of 75 x 50mm box section 3mm thick to form the 2 main rails and 4 sections of 50 x 50mm box section 2.5mm thick for the cross rails.

I have some 5mm plate which I was going to cut down and make some tabs out of for securing the big stuff to the trailer body. Would this be sufficient? I could also make the gussets out of this to (going to go through some blades though!)

Let me know what you think (if anyone is reading!) and damn this metal is expensive

Also ordered myself a new auto-darkening welding mask

G

[Sirocco]

Offered the metal and then the RTT up over the weekend. This is currently how it will sit. Its a bit smaller than when I measured it all up so there is far lass over hang than I was expecting which is good news for the A-frame mounted spare.

Having 2nd thoughts on the amount of metal used to build the rack so its not welded up yet.

G

[Landy-Novice]

little tip if your a messy welder like me!

Place a flat surfaced piece of brass on the other side of the hole you are welding up. this way you have a nice flush surface to keep your weld neat as the weld will not penetrate the brass! and then you only have to flap disc one side!

i seen one of these on youtube, looked great!! but cant remember what it called!

[Guest]

Offered the metal and then the RTT up over the weekend. This is currently how it will sit. Its a bit smaller than when I measured it all up so there is far lass over hang than I was expecting which is good news for the A-frame mounted spare.

Having 2nd thoughts on the amount of metal used to build the rack so its not welded up yet.

G

Even for my standards it does look a little OTT!! Have you thought about adding some roof gutters to the trailer you could then just add normal roof bars which would give you options later?

Jason.

[Sirocco]

Even for my standards it does look a little OTT!! Have you thought about adding some roof gutters to the trailer you could then just add normal roof bars which would give you options later?

Jason.

I dont think rolling gutters into the body will be very strong, not for my intended needs anyway.

I think im now going to turn the main rails over so they are only 2" high (3" wide) and then notch in only 2 cross bars for the RTT. This will still leave room for 1 or 2 pairs of waffles and a table.

G