isbjorn Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hi. We have replaced my defender 1999 td5 engine with a replacement 10p 1999 td5 from a automatic disco and have some problems with it. According to the seller the engine is tested and works fine outside my car. The problem is that the injectors won't run. The nancom finds the injectors and they click in the right order, so all the programming should be correct. And its the same type of injectors as my old engine. When I run a computer test with the engine running we get a error saying that injector 3-5 don't work. But we have tried replacing them + the harness + checked for oli in ecu and timing belt position. So when we run the engine (it barley runs) we only get a lot of white smoke (injector 4-5 dosent seams to be timed correctly). The compression is correct in 1-4 cylinder. What the heck could cause this? The ecu worked like a charm on my old engine, so it shouldn't be that. We are tearing our hair and trying to solve it, but its a bit of a mystery. Its problebly something obvious, but it has eluded me and my mechanic guy... any ideas are appreciated. old thread / background: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=71934&st=20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Are you using the ex-Disco ECU with the ex-Disco engine, or are you trying to use the original Defender ECU with the Disco engine? On a TD5 the injectors need to be coded to the individual ECU for it to run properly. --Tanuki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isbjorn Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Its the defender ecu on a disco engine. But all the injectors are the same color, and are coded in to the ecu. So that is checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I thought they had serial numbers as unique identifiers for each injector..... and had to be coded to the ECU...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isbjorn Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Yes they do. And its done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Right, sorry, your post wasn't 100% clear on that. At this point I would be checking for continuity in the loom between injector plug and ECU plug. It's obviously been moved about quite a bit during the swap, so something may have bee dislodged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isbjorn Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Replay: Ive got a newly fitted bare disco td5 engine (10p) in my old defender 1999 with a 10p. The cables, ECU and gadgets (like turbo, various meters and so on) are the original defender stuff. Status: We still can't get it to ignite. The starter runs fine but the engine refuses to start. Some times it might kick off and start, but it sounds like an old tractor, running very uneven, smokes and dies after around 1 min. So we assume its not injecting diesel at the right timing. We don't get any error codes when trying to start it. My previous engine started fine before the engine swap. And we have literary only lifted the old one out, and the new one in. Things we rubble and tripple checked. All cables are fine 100% correct Injectors are programmed in to ECU Immobilizer code learned Flywheelpin in position Crank sensor replaced with a new 100% working new one from another defender. Oli in ECU and harness changes and cleaned Swaped and replaced all injectors Compression is 100% good in all 1-4 cylinders. Engine salesman claims it to be a 100% fine running td5 Replacement ECU fitted, no change Timing chain marks in right positions. Timing chain setting 100% correct using the 2 land rover tools. Diesel pressure is right Diesel is feed to the engine Test clicked all injectors and they respond correctly. So, what have we missed? Please give me some ideas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Have you tried moving the fuel pressure regulator from the old engine to the new one ? Where and how did you test the fuel pressure ? Have you run the full purge procedure (throttle to the floor, crank for 30 seconds) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isbjorn Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 It is the old regulator that is installed on the new one. We have dubble checked the filter and rings and it looks perfect. The pressure was measured on the return hose, since thats the only way we know. And that that was normal. The purge procedure was the first thing we did. If it is the fuel that is the trouble, I assume it shouldn't start at all. And it does start sometimes (quite randomly and not very often) and then dies again. I can crank for a long time and it is not even coughing or trying to ignite... as far as I can hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'd work on the principal that as long as the TD5 has fuel and the crank sensor is OK they will run even with the wrong injector codes they'll run better than yours is doing by the sounds of it. There's not really a lot that can go wrong with the crank sensor as it's a simple VR sensor reading a bunch of holes in the flywheel and sending the info to the ECU. You've done the obvious things by changing it for a known good sensor and making sure the locating pin is correct. If you have access to an oscilloscope the only other check would be to make sure the signal is strong and consistent at the ECU. You could also do a visual check (not easy !) through the sensor hole, rotating the crank through a full revolution and ensuring there is no debris in the holes that the sensor is looking for. (A long shot but I think we're in long shot territory now !). You may also be able to see if the crank sensor is OK by the RPM reading on your diagnostic toll while it's cranking. If the rpm is fluctuating all over the place it would suggest a problem. Fuel pressure can be an issue but I have successfully and smoothly run a TD5 at just 20PSI with the only problem being a distinct lack of power over 2500 rpm so that's probably not an issue unless it's really low (or high). I'm not sure how you would check the pressure on the return pipe - are you sure you've not got the feed and return pipes swapped over as that would give some really bizarre results ! Ideally you want to test the pressure somewhere between the pump and the regulator as the return via the cooler is after the regulator. Have you visually checked that the lobes on the camshaft are all there and showing no signs of wear ? Just wondering if the injectors aren't being pressurised by the injector lobes properly as the injector lobes are probably more important than anything else in the fuelling system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Two things I'd check: Firstly on the starting, try swapping the starter motor for a known good one. You can get starters that seem to turn over fine but generate some sort of EM interference which causes a non start condition. No I didn't believe it either when I saw the first one, but I've seen plenty. However, usually once they are running they are fine, and if tow/bump started they will fire immediately. Secondly on the running, has the injector plunger depression been set correctly as per the workshop manual when the new injectors were fitted? If not, it won't be getting the full stroke of the plunger. Basically you bottom the plungers out at full stroke using the adjusters and then back the screws off a bit (forget how much but it tells you in the book), rather than what appears to be the obvious way where you set a "tappet clearance" as if you were setting valves. Again, I've seen more than one with a very carefully set clearance which is completely wrong... Can't think of anything else offhand, you seem to have covered all the other obvious stuff. One possibility is of course a dud No 5 cylinder but there's no way to check that because the dolt that designed it thought 4 glowplugs were enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isbjorn Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Thanks for all the support. Ill report back as soon as everything is checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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