Tom Fall Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Haha good on you for doing it though! Just goes to show that a Series truck in the right hands is JUST as capable as a 90 Once I've got my swivelling front mounts sorted it should have as much front articulation as a decently set up 90 as well!! I'll sort you out the details once I've built them if you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 are you on parabolics, my flex isnt too bad at all.it had more, the only reason i was stuck was because i was inbetween 2 bonnets as daft as it sounds haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fall Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yeah I'm on para's, two leaf front, three leaf rears all on a set of ProComp shocks. I get relatively good front flex, but it's nothing in comparison to whats possible. I actually did some measurements and I can get a good 12" of rear droop as opposed to about 4" of front (lifted each corner with a Hi-Lift). I know that's not the most scientific way to check it, and I know the axle will give more articulation with pressure on the opposite side. However, with relocated shock mounts and Gon2Far spring mounts you can get similar to whats in this pic... I'm not gonna move my shock mounts, but with a similar front mount I'm hoping I'll gain at least a few inches more droop allowing me to avoid cross axling quite so much =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A Series should be as capable as a 90, but are you comparing like for like? Do you have the same size/tread of tyres, does one have a lift, does one have a more powerful engine, etc. etc.? The solution to the original problem is that you're running below-standard tyre size, 235/85's are about the universal default these days so anyone running smaller tyres will get stuck in the ruts left by others. However, there's discos, RRs and Freelanders out there who can't easily run those sizes and the answer is basically to just pick a different line and not just drive in the ruts (I never understand why everyone drives in everyone else's ruts?). My other car is a Freelander and I've followed defenders etc. all round sites quite happily in it, you just have to avoid deep ruts or big lumps. Can I play with the car-crushing photos too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fall Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Nice piccy FF =) I'm quite jealous of your 109...it's a lovely bit of kit!!! I agree I'm not necessarily being fair on my S3, as it does do 99% of what I ask of it...but there's nothing wrong with wanting it to be that little bit more capable I do avoid other peoples ruts where possible, but sometimes it's not possible (high sides to the route meaning I can't straddle). I suppose, to be honest, I'm asking a lot more of my car than most S3 drivers do, but I'd quite like to see how far I can take her!! I didn't realise that my tyres were smaller than standard to be honest, when I bought the first set I basically went with what looked "right" in the arches, but I think the next set will definitely be 235/85 R16's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 can you get extended shocks, i find that my rear shocks bottom before my spring runs out of drop. also what type of body is your series tom? mine is a pcikup and with the 3 leaf paras on the rear, unloaded it can be a bit harsh, well not harsh harsh but you know what i mean, with a bit of weight in the back its perfect though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 im not going much taller than my at the moment 235/70's as standard on a disco 1 height wise. i am however going for 265 in width. because i can! my series can outperform defenders in most situations, but then again, some poeple cant really drive off road so its not that mich of a fiar comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fall Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 discomikey, I've got extended shocks on the old girl, they're identical shocks front and rear so I know for a fact it's not them limiting the front end. Mine's full body, but is slowly turning into a station wagon (already got the sides and about to put the roof on). It's pretty good, but with a bit of extra load in the back its DEFINITELY more comfy. My Series definitely does a lot better than most Defenders, I used to walk all over them at Woodlands 4x4. I used to be able to do every black run (most difficult ones) easily. I just want it to be as good as possible =P I suppose I've been spoiled really, I compete in a Challenge 90... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 at the moment im running standard springs as i bent the front ones in my crash, and theyre horrible in comparison! i also think its good to see series vehicles being used properly instead of stored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have a set of +3" front and +5" rear rough country dampers. I haven't fitted them yet as I seem to manage OK on +2" all round. You can't just fit longer ones to standard mounts unless you restrict up travel to stop the longer shock bottoming. If you do that what have you gained? Raised upper mounts are the answer or some fancy back to back double telescoping shocker setup. Search Six Pack shocks but I've seen it done with home made Fab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fall Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm on +2" at the moment, and the back end will still comfortably touch onto the bumpstops. I haven't checked whether I can do that on the front yet, but I will. Considering that the shocks are identical F+R, it shouldn't be any different. The fact that the droop is limited severely on the front is, I'm pretty sure, attributable to the steering system and also the short length of the springs, thus limiting their ability to twist - hence why I'm going to be building something similar to the Gon2Far mounts (including making it lockable for road use). What I'm looking at really is making my car as capable as possible without modifying the chassis. I want everything to be 'bolt on', as I have a 2 year old galvanised chassis and I don't really want to be cutting into it, welding on it or modifying it if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If you think about it, all stucks are driver error, as are all breakages. Parked in the shed your LR is unlikely to get stuck or break of its own accord. A friend of mine reckoned that learning to drive off-road in a Series makes you a better driver because you have to think a bit more, and if you just put your foot down it'll hurt you more than it hurts the car. There are a lot of people in tricked up trucks who take every "stuck" as the vehicle's fault and throw their chequebook at it until it doesn't happen again, if you put them in a standard truck they'd get themselves into trouble on a gravel driveway never mind in the mud. It's the biggest problem I have with the 109, most of the time I don't have to think - the truck will just trundle through anything without issue. It does take an element of fun & challenge out. That said, it still makes me grin when I'm driving it so that's OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fall Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Parked in the shed your LR is unlikely to get stuck or break of its own accord. We are still talking about Land Rovers here aren't we? In all seriousness, I agree with you FF. The fact that I've learnt to drive off road in a Series truck does mean I think more about what lines to take, what I can and can't do and how to approach things. Looking back through photo's of some of the stuff I've done in a **relatively** standard Series does make me smile, and as I say its unusual that clearance IS an issue... But lets be honest, we all like to fiddle with our trucks, try and make them more capable...that's part of owning a Land Rover!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Front dampers are shorter than rears. If yours are the same then something has already been tweaked. The short springs do limit travel. The shackle at the back makes the wheel pull back from obstacles and hop. They do, however climb out of ruts better due to the weight transfer and front wheel biting in harder. Stuff you discover when playing alongside fancy modern stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fall Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 RobotMan...I've just checked through my box of receipts (it's a big box)...by jingo, you're right! I didn't remember them being different part numbers when I bought them, but that was 6 years ago! In which case, I wonder how much of my problem is actually the shockers restricting downward travel? Methinks I'm going to be taking a front and a rear off to measure them fully extended at the weekend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 is it not roughly the same distiance at the front and rear chassis-axle measurements? may be a bit different but im sure rear shocks should be fine, i have some of both in the workshop so ill look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fall Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Already looked mate, and although you could fit the rears to the front, it would be a little pointless. The angle the rears mount at is the main reason for the extra length of them. The total stroke length is near enough the same, its just the maximum compression and extension that are different...if any of that made sense!!! New question for all of you techy people though....any thoughts on what effect it would have if I used REAR spring mounts (and therefore lower shock mounts) up front, and moved the shockers inboard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Greater angle would conflict the tyre on lock. If you mount the shocks inboard of the chassis rails the they will damp rolling less due to greater distance from wheel and therefore greater lever acting against them. To counter this you could use more strongly damped units. These require stronger mounts and when both move together ie over a speed bump then it will be very harsh. Best bet is to lift top mount and go longer shock. Go straight up then it can come out a bit to not foul chassis rail on full droop. I've been looking at making a bolt on extended mount but it's quite a way down the to do list. You can't go far wrong copying Gon2Far's design. I doubt I'll bother with the rear. I have enough travel, for now... Disconnect your shocks, cycle the suspension and if you gain anything, work from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Putting a cable-tie round the shock rod works well to indicate the highest the shock travelled when driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 how do those rear spring hangers affect road driving? im guessing that they are locked for road use? that is if they are what i think they are? (scissor type action) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fall Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 No, have a look on here discomikey: http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newproducts/gone2far/index.shtml Front ones, the red things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 what are they like to drive with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I took them off before getting it back on the road due to propshaft angles with my higher than standard gearbox. I will get around to making a centre limit for the axle to control that but it's about priorities and time. I had used the longer bolts so that I could fit a locking plate on the revolvers for road use. It effectively made them into a rigid triangular shackle. For me tyres, difflocks and winches are first choices before battling against leaf springs. Look to the US as they love leaf springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Best bet is to lift top mount and go longer shock. Go straight up then it can come out a bit to not foul chassis rail on full droop. I've been looking at making a bolt on extended mount but it's quite a way down the to do list. You can't go far wrong copying Gon2Far's design. I doubt I'll bother with the rear. I have enough travel, for now... Disconnect your shocks, cycle the suspension and if you gain anything, work from there. Like so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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