TDi starter solenoid questions

[Gringo]

I have a 2005 TDi Defender 110 with starter problems. no solenoid click when I turn key. I've cleaned all battery contacts and cables, even shining up the ones on the solenoid. Still, nothing. I used a screwdriver to short the positive cable terminal to the little solenoid terminal. Nada. Zilch. nothing.

I clipped a volt meter to the solenoid terminal, and when I turn the key I get about 11.8 volts there at the solenoid terminal. Battery is sitting at 12.7 volts. That should be enough to move the solenoid, shouldn't it?? Or at least make it click.

SO, my initial diagnosis after a long afternoon in the hot tropical sun is that the solenoid is bad. I cannot find any part numbers in the tech manual. Is it possible to just replace or rebuild the solenoid?

I have an ongoing problem living here, in that the local auto parts store (NAPA) is a USA based company, with a USA database in their USA supplied computer inventory system. Since there is no such animal as a 2005 Defender in the USA, their parts database draws a blank when I ask them for help. And invariably, when I try to describe what I need, the person working the computer asks me "what is the year and model of the vehicle". So basically, I no longer bother. But I KNOW some other vehicles must use this starter and it's probably in their data base as belonging to a Hundai or Jeep or Ford or something. There's just no way for me to find it by mentioning Defender.

Does anyone know of a rebuild kit or if another Land Rover vehicle uses the same starter and solenoid? They have Discos in the USA. If a Disco solenoid would work, I could probably find that listed at NAPA.

[Puffernutter]

A voltmeter can lie, you can have volts but no current. so no power.

A better test is, with the ignition off, attach a wire direct from the battery (positive) and touch it on the solenoid red/white wire at the solenoid and see what happens. Also make sure there is a good earth between the starter motor and engine, the fixing bolts are necessarily a good conductor.

If after that, the solenoid doesn't work, then you have a duff solenoid!

Cheers

Peter

[TSD]

If there's 0.9V being dropped down the wire, there's some current being drawn, so it sounds like the solenoid IS jammed. However I'd check the current draw in case you aren't measuring what you think you are (or just power it for 30 seconds and see if it gets noticeably warmer).

Don't know of anything else that uses the same starter (never looked for solenoid alone, but it is certainly possible to replace it).

ISTR Discovery 300tdi was available in Canada.

South America had Ford Ranger with International 2.5 or 2.8 Diesels. The starter from those is the same (the engine is effectively a 300tdi). Not the same engine in the European or North American Rangers though.

Strip the motor and see whats up with it. They come apart pretty easily.

[Landy-Novice]

cant you 'bench test' the starter just to see if that the issue.

[Gringo]

yeah, I didn't mention it, I guess, but i did jumper the + term of the battery directly to the solenoid wire. It's red, btw, not red/white. I know this because the little spade connector was a little loose and I soldered it on the wire. and tightened it. It doesn't wiggle. I was optimistic that I'd found the problem but my euphoria upon finding an iffy connector was short lived. I also used my jumper cables to connect the - batt lug directly to the starter to be sure the negative ground was connected.

Truck bump starts fine. Of course.

So, they didn't put a Tdi in the '05 Discos. Dang. Drat. And horsefeathers.

How do you tell which Tdi it is? Not written anywhere on the truck, that I can see And the letter "F" in the VIN is for both of them.

[TSD]

It doesn't matter if it's 200tdi/300tdi, the starter is the same.

Your problem I guess is that catalogues tend to be region specific, and your truck is presumably Rest-of-World (RoW) spec. Most places stopped getting tdi around 1998, so you should be looking for something like 94-98 vehicles in most markets.

[Gringo]

I think 96 or 97 was the last year Defenders were imported into the USA. Some parts changed over the following ten years. Our trucks are UK spec. 2005 TDi's ( we have a 90 and a 110) Problem is that suppliers based in US can't tell me whether a part for a 96 will fit a '05 or not. It gets frustrating.

[Maverik]

If you can give us some pictures of the engine etc, we can probably help suss out the part numbers for you and then you can just go ask for them?

[TSD]

Our trucks are UK spec. 2005 TDi's

One or more of those statements is wrong.

No such thing as a uk spec tdi for MY2005.

Are you sure it's not a Td5?

[Gringo]

I'm sure you're right. What I mean is that these are not US vehicles, the NAS or whatever they were called. I assumed since they were not built for the US they were built for England. Did the UK not have Tdi engines?

The VIN is SALLDHMF74A684829. I ran that through some online program that informs me that it's a "Range Rover Classic" which is complete rubbish, of course. But I have bought other parts for the Tdi. We have two of them.

[TSD]

The tdi was dropped in 97 for most of the world due to emissions regs, but was still available for some markets, and known as Rest-of-World spec. (Also military variants).

So in most catalogues you'll want to look at 94-98 years to find tdi parts. Of course, USA never got the diesels at all officially.

NAPA website lists 2.5 diesel Discovery in 96, but the parts it finds seem to be V8 ones.

If you have a Bosch motor (very likely if it's the original motor), then the Bosch part number for the solenoid is 0331303165. Any Bosch agent should be able to source one for you.

An MWM/International/Navistar dealer might be able to source a motor? Some South American Ford Rangers and Merc Sprinter vans had International 2.5tdi or 2.8tdi engines which are the same family as the 300tdi.

[Gringo]

Thanks for the suggestion, but we really don't have automobile dealers here. Not manufacturer specific, anyway. There is a LR dealer, but they quote prices about three times list and they typically quote a three week delivery, from the UK. IF I have to go that route, it's cheaper and faster for me to order direct from UK. Im hoping I can find one that will fit already in stock locally.

Do you have a Bosch PN for the entire starter assy?

[Gringo]

Okay, I got the starter off, and the solenoid off, and if I jumper 12 vdc to it it acts quite like a solenoid jumping in my hand like a live thing.

I'm now guessing there's nothing wrong with this solenoid. I could have actually saved the gashes in my thumb from taking it out. There's something sharp there.

While I have it off the starter I'd like to check inside and see if it needs cleaning up or anything. Does anyone know if these things come apart, and how?

It looks like I need to maybe de-solder a couple of contacts. Since it seems to be working like a solenoid, maybe I should leave it alone.

[Gringo]

solenoid and starter work fine on the bench, but not in the truck. I've cleaned all terminals and connections, between battery, starter, engine, and chassis.

There's voltage at the spade lug when I turn the ignition to Start, but the solenoid doesn't initiate. It also doesn't work when I short the + 12vdc from the threaded terminal to the spade lug on the solenoid, when in the truck. Shorting those two on the bench, it works fine.

What's going on???

[vulcan bomber]

You cant bench test a starter motor, a starter will spin readily on the bench, however under load its entirly different and wont work.

[vulcan bomber]

You cant bench test a starter motor, a starter will spin readily on the bench, however under load its entirly different and wont work.

[Gringo]

Well, I got it going. I made a strap by braiding four strands of steel re-bar tie wire and ran it from the ground lug on the transmission to the lower mounting bolt on the starter. Presto, she cranks like never before.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.