coilover mounting options

[dirtydiesel]

On the jeep i'm building I don't quite have enough width on the front axle case to get the lower coil over mountings as far apart as i'd like them to be. I had planned on building a mounting similar to the one below.

This pic is just the closest I could find on Google,

A mounting like this would work for me but, balancing having sufficient clearance to remove the steering arm/upper king pin against how high the upper mounting point would have to be as well as the huge strength this bracket would need, left me with an interesting idea......

What about directly mounting the coilover bracket to my steering arm? Directly above the upper swivel bearing.

Something like this,

Now this idea I like, I can have a really simple bracket and to my mind the loadings from the coilover will have a very clean path through to the wheel.

But the axle casing will no longer be supporting any of the vehicles weight,

I have searched and pirate seems to have the view that it's not such a good idea,

But they're arguments against are based on their axle of choice (kingpin D60) having a plastic top bush in the swivel (similar to a railko bush) and this bushes limited lifespan under the weight of the coilover; the g wagon axles I'm using have roller taper bearings top and bottom.

The other argument is that the added load especially in sheer could cause failure in the steering arm mounting bolts; the angle it would best serve me to mount coil overs on the jeep is nearly dead in line with the KPI and as such I think here would be very little side loadings on the bolts or mountings, and the g wagon king pin bolts are doweled as well

I have mounted some coilovers like this before, but it was back in 2003 on a buggy with unimogs 404 axles, in that application it was a failure because the design of the swivel arrangement relies on the weight of the vehicle on the inner "C" to hold the swivel together, I do however remember the steering became very light with this setup (until it fell to bits) and because of the steering action the coilover spring plates kept coming loose.

Can anyone think of any reasons not to my coilovers or air shocks on the swivel pins?

Quick pic of the steering arm/swivel pin on my axle.

[Daan]

I reckon it will work ok, with the bearing setup in your swivel and take a big load of the casing. The only thing I can see is that with a coilover, you should start thinking about a bearing under the springplatform, or otherwise you are trying to rotate the springplatform on its thread. On rallycars, with a front Mcpherson, a bearing is a common thing to have (usually a needle bearing, the shape of the springlocation face) , but mostly they are not sealed and are throw away items. And they are spendy.

Daan

[moose]

It would be a PITA if you had to service/fix some thing in swivel, especially if not in the work shop.....

[bill van snorkle]

Do the bottom swivel pin bolts/studs on the G wagon take the weight of the vehicle like on a Series LandRover? Or does the taper roller thrust against the swivel housing like on a coiler? If it's the bolts/studs, then bolting the coilover to the top swivel should be fine as the bottom bolts are already proven to hold the vehicles weight full time, especially with those dowell rings the "clever Germans" have fitted to the bolt holes. If the steering arms were originally on the bottom then the bolts would have been subject to tensile loads from supporting the vehicles weight, plus shear loads from steering. They are obviously up to it.

BTW, is that a rear steer axle on your second photo? If not it has massive reverse ackerman geometry.

[dirtydiesel]

It would be a PITA if you had to service/fix some thing in swivel, especially if not in the work shop.....

Excellent moose, I hadn't thought along that vien, too much time with mogs I suppose.

Especially considering that you have to pull those bolts to get the cv out.

Do the bottom swivel pin bolts/studs on the G wagon take the weight of the vehicle like on a Series LandRover? Or does the taper roller thrust against the swivel housing like on a coiler? If it's the bolts/studs, then bolting the coilover to the top swivel should be fine as the bottom bolts are already proven to hold the vehicles weight full time, especially with those dowell rings the "clever Germans" have fitted to the bolt holes.

BTW, is that a rear steer axle on your second photo? If not it has massive reverse ackerman geometry.

They are setup like a rangerover taper rollers into the swivels,

Clever Austrians actually ster-puch designed the g wagon.

The second pic is a rear steer setup, Rockwell outers onto a Dana70 center by the look of it.

[bill van snorkle]

They are setup like a rangerover taper rollers into the swivels,

Then the bolts have a fairly easy time of it. I'd think steering shear loads would be much greater than any shear loads the coilovers would impose.

[B reg 90]

I would preffer the shock on the king pin rather than a leant over tower that will be suseptable to fatuge failure over time.

Some fancy shocks have a bearing to allow the coil to spin as it compresses (King pure race series I think). How about two glass filled PTFE washers to allow the coil to turn as the steering is turned?

Re loading on the king pins. If you have a roller bearing top and bottom I see little problem. The king pins will still have an element bending monent loading up the bearings, i.e the roller will rotate rather then skid when the steering is turned.

Adrian

[dirtydiesel]

My thoughts as well Adrian.

One thing I cannot quite my head around is the diminished role the axle plays in supporting the weight of the vehicle, and what effects if any this will have if any.

I'm off up to milners in the morning to see what Andy can sort me out with, not quite sure whether to go with air shocks or 2.0 non Res coilovers.

As for the servicing side of things, my brother pointed out that there would be almost no servicing scenario where the vehicle weight will still be on the shock mount. Out in the field more than likely the axle will be hanging with the body supported by with a winch or a hi lift,

And for servicing and repairs at home it'll be on the 2 post lift.

[Soren Frimodt]

Regarding turning of the CO if you do this, could you not just mount it to a rosejoint on the chassis end? A fairly strong sort of bearing for the hard environment it will see

[dirtydiesel]

Regarding turning of the CO if you do this, could you not just mount it to a rosejoint on the chassis end? A fairly strong sort of bearing for the hard environment it will see

The foxes that I have previously mounted on mog swivels had roses both ends and they still kept loosening off the spring platforms.

[Soren Frimodt]

Okay I see, maybe because the exceeded their maximum turning radius? Alternatively if there's enough material thickness in the spring adjuster-nut you could drill and tap for a set screw?

Re the support of the vehicle weight one should think this setup would be much easier on the kingpin bearings because the shock-load from the wheel would travel directly to the shock, and not through the kingpin, and then to the shock.