Cannot source ISUZU 4BD1T, what about NISSAN B4.40?

[o_teunico]

The 2.25 diesel of the 109 is certainly underpowered. I have allways thought about the 200Tdi, but if I´m going to swap both the original engine and box, why not something bigger?

ISUZU 4BD1T is a great engine, fitted from factory in aussie perenties, but impossible to locate here in Spain.

EBRO, a spanish light/medium truck builder, was bought by NISSAN in the 80´s, so their extreamly popular range started to use spanish built japanesse engines.

At work we have two EBROs, both with the NISSAN B4.40 engine. The 5 ton one is N/A, 90hp. No power, but still going strong with nearly half a million miles on the clock. The 8 Ton unit has the "Eco system" (Turbo + intercooler). 135HP. This is the one I usually drive. It´s a real pleasure. Feels more powerfull than the 180HP Renault we also use (if you are not carefull with your right foot you can end with speeding tickets!), no breakdowns (half a million kilometres on the clock), low fuel consumption (lorry is 3m high, 2.3m wide, 15/16 L/100km), axhaust valve for engine breaking, built in air compressor, easy to locate both engine and spares, well known by local whorkshops...but here is the big question: what about the rest of the world? EBRO lorries were sold only in Spain and Portugal. Whas this engine marketed in Europe and Africa? Any known transplant on Landies?

[o_teunico]

Oooops! Should have posted in "International". Can any of the A/M move it? Thanks.

[Gremlin]

Truck engine in a series!, what next?

Axles will break like twigs, what box / transfer case?? LR boxes will die behind very torquey engines.

Just put a 200/300 in

G

[Josh NZ]

Nissan ED33/35 and Mitsubishi 4DR5 motors are extremely popular swaps out here in NZ. Then there's the 4.1 toyota dyna motor and the Nissan LD28. Everyone just uses an adaptor to bolt to the standard LR gearbox and I dont hear of issues with killing lots of components.. Well, not as many as I expected to hear about! The words are mechanical sympathy I believe!

[FridgeFreezer]

- How much does it weigh

- How much torque does it put out?

- How many cylinders is it?

- What would you do about gearing?

Bolting half a ton of iron into the front will affect the handling (such as it is), load the suspension, and you'll sink faster off-road.

If it puts out big torque then you will have to be gentle to avoid breaking things.

If it's a big 4-pot, all that torque arrives in 4 big hits, whereas a 6 or 8 cylinder is smoother and kinder.

Gearing could be a problem, older diesels, especially truck engines, are designed to lug along at low revs - if your gearing is wrong it'll be like entering a shire horse in the grand national.

There's also the question of space & cooling, have you measured the engine, and how much radiator does the truck have?

[Phil Hancock]

Truck engine in a series!, what next?

G

There is a series someware with a Cummins 6BT in it, thats a truck engine, 5.9ltr 6 pot turboed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duDgTKtD4so

[Gazzar]

On the other hand - if you can get spares locally, and it's a gear timed engine, lightweight, high revving diesel, with a heavy flywheel, it may be very good.

But.........................

As someone who put a 200 di into his 109 to save on fuel costs, and now finds he's doing less than a thousand miles a year, I have to ask:

why not put in a 2286 petrol? Or a 2495 petrol? Quiet, cheap, fixable, easy to fit, thirsty, but unless you are doing mega miles, who cares?, good low rev torque figures, tick over at 500 rpm?

It's not all about MPG (l/100km) it's about lifetime costs!

G.

[Gremlin]

Yes i know, and even fitted to a 90, sounds great but i doubt its a practical swap.

I am all out for big engines, so don't get me wrong, but there are engines and engines, a truck engine is no real gain in my books. I was following another post elsewhere on the merc 6 pot diesel, pumping out lots of hp and still within reasonable and sensible weights.

Down Here back in the 90's we had a boom of large jap diesel engines fitted to anything and everything, rd28 was favourite in land rovers, its revs like hell and goes like stink especially the turbo charged version, but boy it lacks low down torque. Toyota 3b engines were also plentiful especially in RR, but it was a case of the bigger the engine the more things tended to go wrong and get complex quickly. (a guy here also had a big york 6 pot in a range rover!)

Tdi seems the simplest solution to me, without running into complex solutions for saving the drivetrain (although i managed to destroy several boxes + 1 overdrive with my tdi) Axles seem to handle the abuse from the tdi, so that should be less to think about.

But as i usually say, if you throw enough money at something it will eventually work! so anything is possible! it will just come at a cost!

G

[bill van snorkle]

Nissan ED33/35 and Mitsubishi 4DR5 motors are extremely popular swaps out here in NZ. Then there's the 4.1 toyota dyna motor and the Nissan LD28. Everyone just uses an adaptor to bolt to the standard LR gearbox and I dont hear of issues with killing lots of components.. Well, not as many as I expected to hear about! The words are mechanical sympathy I believe!

Anyone with mechanical knowledge and sympathy will not consider overpowering a Series LandRover in the first place. Not without changing the whole drivetrain anyway.

[o_teunico]

Truck engine in a series!, what next?

Amphibious body?

what box / transfer case??

Getrag GFT MT82 (Ford Mustang, Transit, Ranger, LR Defender '07 onwards, rated to something above 500Nm). LT230.

Rover axles with Ashcroft treatment.

How much does it weigh

No idea. Shouldn´t be much more than a Santana 3.5 six

- How much torque does it put out?

- How many cylinders is it?

417Nm@1300rpm, 137HP@2600rpm, four pot.

What would you do about gearing?

The 109 is taxed as goods vehicle, so anything above 55mph will be illegal. For that speed there is no need for high gearing or high revving engine. Engine revs up to 3000rpm

There's also the question of space & cooling, have you measured the engine, and how much radiator does the truck have?

70cm wide, 80cm long (add 15cm for flywheel cover), 70cm high up to the top of the intake pipe, add 15 cm for sump.

I forgot measuring the rads

why not put in a 2286 petrol? Or a 2495 petrol?

No thanks. I love diesels. Will be used daily (80 km).

rd28 was favourite in land rovers

Plenty of them here, as it was used in locally built MQ160s. Will prefer a LR Tdi instead of one of those.

not consider overpowering a Series LandRover in the first place. Not without changing the whole drivetrain anyway

This engine swap will need to be part of a whole vehicle upgrade

[o_teunico]

Amphibious body?

[Phil Hancock]

That has been around for a few years now, it used to be IIRC dark blue. It was featured in one of the landy comics.

[Gareth Dickens]

If you are thinking of a Isuzu motor exclusively, my favourite is the 4JB1-T. I believe this is the 2.8 turbo diesel many South Africans love. It is a simple engine with one wire for turning the fuel solenoid on or off, delivers about 74kw and 230N.m. torque with basically no turbo lag and has excellent fuel consumption. (with the standard 5 speed gearbox they return between 10 and 13 km/liter) They run on 500ppm diesel which is the most common in Africa. (Even 50 ppm is only found in the more advance countries on the major motorways an cities)

When an intercooler is added to this engine it really does go farely well and they last from 300 -500 000 km without any significant repairs. The Isuzu uses a 4.556 ratio diff (I am told) and therefore the Landy 4.7 diffs with 33 or 35" tyres should return the final drive to as close to standard for an Isuzu.

If my Ford 302 dies I will be choosing between this and the Lexus V8 (1UZ-VVTi). If the isuzu was a bit cheaper it would be no contest.

[o_teunico]

Here in Spain Isuzu was marketed under OPEL badges. Monterey (Trooper) used the 3.1, and Frontera (don´t know Isuzu name equivalent) used the 2.8, but a 200 Tdi will have better mpg, torque, power and also has only one wire!

Nissan B4.40 Ti is all torque!

[bill van snorkle]

Here in Spain Isuzu was marketed under OPEL badges. Monterey (Trooper) used the 3.1, and Frontera (don´t know Isuzu name equivalent) used the 2.8, but a 200 Tdi will have better mpg, torque, power and also has only one wire!

Nissan B4.40 Ti is all torque!

What about the 2 other important wires for a diseasal ? Those to the starter motor.

[Gareth Dickens]

What about the 2 other important wires for a diseasal ? Those to the starter motor.

I meant for engine control. Point taken though Bill.

Weight would be a major concern for me though. I am allready worried about my 302 which is suposedly only 20 lbs heavier than the original motor. It had to be shifted quite a bit forward and is now over the front axle.

I like the Isuzu engine and gearbox as a package. They really worked well in the pickups here. With an intercooler fit to the Isuzu and the 5 speed gearbox I am sure it will outperform a 200/300 tdi mated to a 4 speed Series box.

[bill van snorkle]

I meant for engine control. Point taken though Bill.

Weight would be a major concern for me though. I am allready worried about my 302 which is suposedly only 20 lbs heavier than the original motor. It had to be shifted quite a bit forward and is now over the front axle.

I like the Isuzu engine and gearbox as a package. They really worked well in the pickups here. With an intercooler fit to the Isuzu and the 5 speed gearbox I am sure it will outperform a 200/300 tdi mated to a 4 speed Series box.

The Isuzu + 5 spd would be vastly more reliable than anything mated up to a series box too.

[o_teunico]

What about the 2 other important wires for a diseasal ? Those to the starter motor.

You don´t need them

[dirtydiesel]

Here in Spain Isuzu was marketed under OPEL badges. Monterey (Trooper) used the 3.1, and Frontera (don´t know Isuzu name equivalent) used the 2.8, but a 200 Tdi will have better mpg, torque, power and also has only one wire!

Nissan B4.40 Ti is all torque!

On paper a 200tdi may appear better than the 2.8 isuzu , the reality is somewhat different.

On a completely unrelated note, there's a 4bd1t for sale in the classifieds of this forum.

[o_teunico]

I've been searching in spanish 4x4 forums. Parts for the Isuzu 4J1B 2.8 Tdi fitted to Opel Frontera are starting to get difficult to obtain.

What are the good points about the isuzu 2.8?

[Gareth Dickens]

The isuzus here with them really did not go badly at all. Cruising at 120km/h gave great fuel consumption. (11-13 km/liter conservatively) Town driving regularly returned 10km/liter. No turbo lag. Very strong idle with a rotary rev adjuster which was great for offroad crawling. Cruising at 140km/h was easy enough but did hurt fuel consumption. The were very reliable and easily did 300-500000km without overhaul when serviced as per manufacturer. I think service intervals were 15000km with 7500km oil changes, but I stand to be corrected. First gear was nice and strong.

The gearbox ratios are well suited to series 4.7 axles especially when fitting 33" tyres. I'm reasonably sure the Isuzu's ran 4.556 diff ratios with +/- 29" wheels.

The 3.1 is very similar to the 2.8 and would be a reasonable substitute.

[bill van snorkle]

On paper a 200tdi may appear better than the 2.8 isuzu , the reality is somewhat different.

On a completely unrelated note, there's a 4bd1t for sale in the classifieds of this forum.

I wonder, with the 4BD1T if Isuzu fixed the cavitation corrosion through number 1 cylinder problem that I have experienced on several 4BD1's over the years.

[o_teunico]

On paper a 200tdi may appear better than the 2.8 isuzu , the reality is somewhat different.

In paper torque seems too low and both power and torque come at too high rpm.

Is this engine that electronic free? I see too much wires at the pump

[o_teunico]

I have found complete engines in local secondhand market for 400 to 1100 Eur.

[Josh NZ]

The Isuzu 2.8s are a great engine. I had one in a Holden pick up I used to have, and it's still going at 355,000kms. It really gets up and goes as well but I imagine being in a light 2wd utility helped a little. Towed my broken down s2a on a dual axle trailer over some really long steep hills with zero complaints too! Excellent on fuel as well. Might be different in a landy in terms of performance but I always dreamed of dropping one into my old stage 1 v8 and running it with the 5 speed gearbox as well.