Johannadine Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Please can you help my land rover 3.9 V8 When i leave the clutch each time i change the gears it Jerks and the front prop shaft makes like a clicking noise like there is play on it. Could this be my transfer case chain. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 None of the discoveries were fitted with the chain driven Borg Warner Transferbox to my knowledge. If you suspect play in the propshafts, get underneath and give them a good shake, you'll feel any play in the UJs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannadine Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 This is 5 Speed Manual. I tried to take the front prop shaft off and tried to drive it but it wont drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 You should have a LT230 transferbox, with selectable difflock and lowrange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 You need to lock the centre diff if you remove a propshaft. The centre diff in an lt230 is open normally and locked by moving the transfer box lever to the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 You need to lock the centre diff if you remove a propshaft. The centre diff in an lt230 is open normally and locked by moving the transfer box lever to the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 You could also have play from the transfer case input gear where the gearbox mainshaft enters the transfer case. It develops as a clunk on gearchange There can also be play which develops as wear within the centre differential where there are some brass washers that wear over time hence the planet and sun gears develop a bit of extra play. A similar thing applies to the front and rear differential. All this play adds up and multiplies out as a cluck on gearchange You need to get under the vehicle and start feeling the drivetrain out with the wheels chocked on some level ground with the handbrakeon and off / released. As if you twist the props about you should be able to work out what is moving and not moving in tandem. There will naturally be a bit of play because of the high / low range sleeve and differential backlash. As it's a 3.9l if someone has been ragging it about, these points take the brunt and clucks develop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannadine Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 You could also have play from the transfer case input gear where the gearbox mainshaft enters the transfer case. It develops as a clunk on gearchange There can also be play which develops as wear within the centre differential where there are some brass washers that wear over time hence the planet and sun gears develop a bit of extra play. A similar thing applies to the front and rear differential. All this play adds up and multiplies out as a cluck on gearchange You need to get under the vehicle and start feeling the drivetrain out with the wheels chocked on some level ground with the handbrakeon and off / released. As if you twist the props about you should be able to work out what is moving and not moving in tandem. There will naturally be a bit of play because of the high / low range sleeve and differential backlash. As it's a 3.9l if someone has been ragging it about, these points take the brunt and clucks develop This seems to sound like the problem. Sorry to ask but where is the Centre differential. sorry im abit stupid. Cause i took my front prop shaft off and i put it in diff lock. and then it jerks heavy and engine stops. . . . But what you say seems to be the exact problem. . . . What can i do ...... Thanks so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 .... Are you sure the problem is not with the rear drivetrain? You seem to have said that with the diff lock on / enabled when you try to move the vehicle it stalls? Is that correct? Centre differential is within the transfer case, it transfers the drive between the front and rear prop shafts by applying the diff lock you have effectivly made the differential solid (there is naturally a fair bit of play in the diff lock collar / sleeve) Forget the centre diff for a moment, can you just confirm the stalled question above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Where abouts are you? I'm sure there would be a friendly forumer willing to pop by and lend a hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Sound slike it popped out of difflock, hold the lever over to the left, and see if it moves further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannadine Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 .... Are you sure the problem is not with the rear drivetrain? You seem to have said that with the diff lock on / enabled when you try to move the vehicle it stalls? Is that correct? Centre differential is within the transfer case, it transfers the drive between the front and rear prop shafts by applying the diff lock you have effectivly made the differential solid (there is naturally a fair bit of play in the diff lock collar / sleeve) Forget the centre diff for a moment, can you just confirm the stalled question above? You seem to have said that with the diff lock on / enabled when you try to move the vehicle it stalls? Is that correct? this is correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannadine Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 It was a automatic but the people i bought it from made it a manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I am no expert but if it stalls when you have removed the front prop shaft and you've put it in diff lock something is seized or locked on in the rear drivetrain Suggestions.... Have you released the handbrake? Are you sure the handbrake shoes have released? Have the rear brake pads seized onto the discs? Is the rear diff seized? Handbrake released should be quick to check by releasing it in the cab going under the vehicle and rocking the prop shaft with your hand. There should be some movement Checking the rest of the drivetrain requires you to jack one rear wheel, chock the front wheels and release the handbrake (on a level surface) then spin the wheel and it should turn freely, try the same on the opposite side too Oh yeah disable the diff lock by moving the short gear stick to the opposite side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Suggestions anyone smashed rear diff gears stuck where they shouldn't be? (Never broke a crown wheel yet) maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannadine Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 I am no expert but if it stalls when you have removed the front prop shaft and you've put it in diff lock something is seized or locked on in the rear drivetrain Suggestions.... Have you released the handbrake? Are you sure the handbrake shoes have released? Have the rear brake pads seized onto the discs? Is the rear diff seized? Handbrake released should be quick to check by releasing it in the cab going under the vehicle and rocking the prop shaft with your hand. There should be some movement Checking the rest of the drivetrain requires you to jack one rear wheel, chock the front wheels and release the handbrake (on a level surface) then spin the wheel and it should turn freely, try the same on the opposite side too Oh yeah disable the diff lock by moving the short gear stick to the opposite side WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY CHOCK THE FRONT WHEELS. THANKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_chock considering I was suggesting you should inspect the drivetrain without the handbrake on, and the vehicle jacked up, I thought it was good advice that you put some blocks, bricks or a wheel chock under the front wheels to ensure that the vehicle didn't move and run you over. Can you let us know where you are located there may be a forum member who's able to help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannadine Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_chock considering I was suggesting you should inspect the drivetrain without the handbrake on, and the vehicle jacked up, I thought it was good advice that you put some blocks, bricks or a wheel chock under the front wheels to ensure that the vehicle didn't move and run you over. Can you let us know where you are located there may be a forum member who's able to help? I am in limpopo south africa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 funny enough .... I know bits of limpopo from a former life... Another way to do is is, I'd suggest putting the front prop back on the vehicle, disconnect the rear propshaft, again with the difflock on, and see if the vehicle moves without stalling. This will basically isolate the problem to either the rear axle (as you've disconnected it, if the brakes are locked or the diff is somehow seized, the rear wheels will drag however). If the vehicle stalls again, as I've got the rear propshaft off I'd suggest looking at removing the handbrake drum, from memory there is an adjuster mechanism that requires releasing or the drum can be difficult to remove because if there is a lip on the inside of the drum the handbrake shoes can catch on the drum Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannadine Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Hi Rob Ok i have done what you have said the rear diff seems to be fine. Could the front diff on the prop shaft which has lots of play more than the back one. Could that make the land rover Jerk as well when gears are changed. thanks PS thanks for the manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The front axle has a lot more wear and tear potential all of which can multiply out and appear as though you have a lot of play in the drivetrain. It appears as a clunk when changing gear, but should never stall the vehicle which is what you reported above. I'm sorry but its going to have to be one that you work through to try to work out where the play or most of it could be, I will try to list all the sources of play below that I can think of and the reasons why, apologies, this will be a bit long, but it may give you an idea of where the most amount of the clunk that is coming from. The most likley ones you can work through are: propshaft universal joints (as they are quick to inspect) youtube clip here for you front and or rear differentials, front most likely especially for crownwheel to pinion wear on high mileage as it's driving on the wrong (coast) side, it can wear to the point that you can never get them to give the correct meshing pattern + backlash on the power / coast sides and need to be binned (I know that well!) transfer case input gear and output shaft, most definite case for a clunk here this post here shows some very clear pictures of the stepped splines. A clear youtube clip here for you too: FRONT AXLES, starting at the wheels and working towards the transfer case: a) The hubs have driving members on them, which have splines which mate with the stub-shaft of the constant-velocity (CV) joints, there is a potential for a small amount of play here, but you need to remember that a small amount of play from the front differential (and rear) out to the driving members is multiplied by 3.54, so if you have a 1mm movement at the driving members, you will get 3.54mm if you twist the propshaft back and forth potentially. It is unlikely that there will be a lot here, but you can have a look by jacking the vehicle up, removing the wheel, and removing the hub dust cover (plastic cup on the end of the hub), and then rocking the wheel back and forth and you can see the amount of play between the stub shaft. b) The CV joints, inside the swivel housing is the CV joints, these can wear, and have been known to break too with heavy off-roading, over time, you will get a dent / groove that will wear in the convex surface of the CV Joint, and some play will develop here, but it should not be very great, it's not the easiest thing to inspect for as it requires removing the swivel housing or the stub-axle tubes (probably easier too do). Again any play here is multiplied by 3.54 when you twist the propshaft. Most likely to appear as a notchy feel or I think I've hear a click being mentioned, but have not experienced that myself. c) The differential (front and rear are the same, although the front one technically loads the wrong side of the crownwheel teeth...[landrover design, they are all the same]), here there are a few things that can wear, and quite a number of gear sorfaces in contact, and backlash can end up being quite pronouced, mine was very bad when I rebuilt my diff for backlash. d) The propshaft universal joints, you should be able to feel or see the play if there is any between the UJ's when twisting the propshaft back and forth, although they wear and I believe develop a clunk if should be easy to spot. e) The propshaft sliding joint, although unlikley if it's been greased (correctly, make sure the propshaft is fully compressed before swirting grease into the nipples!), but again any play should be easy to spot and it should only ever be the smallest amount. The front axle has the potential for much more play as there is driving members (splined joint), CV joints, CV-1/2 shaft (splined joint), 1/2 shaft to differential sun gear (splined joint), sun gears to plant gears + effect of a single pin for the 2-planet gears on the standard "2-pin" diff), crownwheel to pinion, with the pinion having two bearings, as well as the whole differeial assembly being supported by two bearings, then the pinion to propshaft splined joint (although bolted), then two UJ's, and a propshaft sliding joint, and a propshaft to transfer case splined joint (although bolted) REAR AXLE starting at the wheels and working towards the transfer case: a) The hubs have driving members (some have solid rear 1/2 shafts with driving members attached) on them, which have splines which mate with the stub-shaft of the constant-velocity (CV) joints, there is a potential for a small amount of play here, but you need to remember that a small amount of play from the front differential (and rear) out to the driving members is multiplied by 3.54, so if you have a 1mm movement at the driving members, you will get 3.54mm if you twist the propshaft back and forth potentially. It is unlikley that there will be a lot here, but you can have a look by jacking the vehicle up, removing the wheel, and removing the hub dust cover (plastic cup on the end of the hub), and then rocking the wheel back and forth and you can see the amount of play between the stub shaft. b) The differential (front and rear are the same), here there are a few things that can wear, and quite a number of gear surfaces in contact, and backlash can end up being quite pronounced. c) The propshaft universal joints, you should be able to feel or see the play if there is any between the UJ's when twisting the propshaft back and forth, although they wear and I believe develop a clunk if should be easy to spot. d) The propshaft sliding joint, although unlikely if it's been greased (correctly, make sure the propshaft is fully compressed before squirting grease into the nipples!), but again any play should be easy to spot and it should only ever be the smallest amount. The transfer case it's self has a number of areas for a clunk to develop, but the main ones in order of potential are: a) Input gear to gearbox output shaft (mainshaft), landrover used I think it was a 10 spline profile to join these two elements together, but when you look at the amount of contact surface it's not that much, better way (although would have cost them a whole load more back whenever they came up with this design would have been an involute splined mainshaft and input gear as it would have been able to take a whole lot more force before deforming both the input gear splines and the mainshaft splines. b) transfer case differential, there are some brass washers / cup washers that sit one the back of the planet gears of the differential and they wear over time, this develops / allows the planet gears to become further apart from the sun gears hence backlash develops, I believe it depends upon mileage, how much offroading you do, and whether the vehicle has been driven on a low traction (or with one wheel in the air) in a reckless manor as to how quick or slow these brass cup washers can last. Mine when I serviced my diff were very thin and almost knife edge sharp. Within the differential its self there are some "natural backlash" areas: The High and Low ratio sliding sleeve that mates with the High Ratio and Low Ratio gear dog has a bit of play in it And the differential lock sliding sleeve that locks the front propshaft to the differential has some natural play it it too (i.e there is clearance between the teeth of the sliding collar and the dog). Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannadine Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thank you Rob this is really going to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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