NP435's

[BogMonster]

Definitely no hydraulic tappets on any Tdi I've seen.

I don't know about the Perkins element, but the 200 is noisy enough for Perkins to have had something to do with it - perhaps they were the NVH consultants ... "Ear defenders mate, and stop yer #kin whinging"

[Boydie]

Lewis, if you go to my gallery and view the "modifications" file you will see the early front timing cover and the boss for the breather vent.

I installed hydraulic lifters in my 300Tdi quite easily when I was rebuilding it - using Australian Ford V8 units and having the oil gallery at the front of the engine block drilled to feed them (one one that feeds the rocker shaft), they sit on the original roller cam followers and the block push rod journals only had to be honed out a few thou for them to fit perfectly.

An old neighbour of mine some years back said that he worked for LR in their D&D department for quite a few years. He retired and with his wife came out to Oz to be near his married daughter, it was he that told me that Perkins were contracted to carry out the 200 & 300Tdi engine designs, but he's passed away now so I'm not able to supply any more information than that, and, as I said it was to a very detailed specification so maybe that included utilisation of some existing engine castings to attempt to reduce final production and tooling costs.

When I worked at Aston Martin Lagonda at Newport Pagnell in the late 60's (another lifetime ago) we carried out similar developments on the Chrysler V8 block converting it from push-rod to OHC, again to reduce costs of tooling up for a totally new engine. To this day very few Aston Martin V8 owners are unaware that replacement parts for the main block - water pump, crank bearings, oil seals etc, can be purchased from Chrysler for a fraction of the AM price list!

[Lewis]

Let me check I understand your logic, you say that because you have converted a 300 to hydraulic lifters with parts from another engine, that the earlier 200tdi must have had hydraulic lifters, which it did not. Is that correct?

Furthermore you suggest that a lump in the casting on 300's (which are completely different to 200's) was deleted on the 300 as a cost saving when the 300 was developed from the 200. It's not much of a cost saving if you have to put it in to delete it

There is a bit of history around the tdi engines on the link below, given the engineering investment into the 300tdi it hardly seems like and cost saving would have been achieved on the engine itself - it seems that the cost saving was in commonality across the range of vehicles

http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/tdipage1.htm

I too worked in engine development at LR, but I don't have any information to directly contradict what your neighbour had told you.

I agree with you that the 300 is a development of the 200, that much is certain. However I dispute that either engine ever had hydraulic lifters, and I don't think that it's possible to outright state the intended purpose of a spare lump in a casting just because you have found a use for it

Going back to the crux of your disagreement with my statement that the Gemini engines where designed and built by LR, surely that statement remains true regardless of whether third parties were consulted for engineering knowledge or not?

Rauch were heavily involved in adapting the tdci engine into defenders, but the design and development work was still done at LR. Equally, GKN have been building Land Rover chassis for many years, but this doesn't spark semantics with you when anyone describes them as a Land Rover chassis as opposed to a GKN chassis

[Boydie]

Lewis, My information from Ronnie who was then well into his 80's when I knew him was that Perkins carried out the design of the engines based on a specification from LR, so I would assume that this included the requirement that the engine design allowed for the modification of previous LR engine castings to economise on tooling costs.

The design submitted by Perkins included the timing cover breather, they realised that with the wading plugs fitted if the engine entered deep water the air trapped inside the cover would cool and contract with the possibility of water being drawn into the timing cover via the front seal. While the timing case to this initial design the breather was never fitted, the boss simply remained on early cases and was removed on later productions. The Perkins initial design called for hydraulic lifters, this was, as you said, never used, the roller cam followers were. I simply used Ford Hydraulic lifters because they were the right size, the block was able to be drilled to supply oil to them easily and it means that I don't ever have to adjust the tappets.

[Dave64]

Hi All,

Been following these posts with interest. Now we have sorted out that the engine is the Land/Range Rover designed 200TDI, have moved onto adapting an NP435 transmission. Actually, it is the later all-synchro "close ratio" version I'm tinkering with (sometimes called the NP4530 or the NP445. Must point out that it is NOT the transmission to transfer case adaptation I'm concerned with, got that covered).

Had one sent over from the States, my contact tells me it SHOULD arrive sometime this week.

Just taking a few measurements with a vernier (haven't got to the precision measuring yet), but using a Ford version of the NP435 with a Dodge version input shaft (most internals SEEM to be able to be swapped between Ford, Dodge and International) where they seem to vary is in input shaft length and transmission to back of bellhousing pattern bolts. May even have to try and find the longest input shaft and also have it modified.

By using the old R/Rover alloy bellhousing as a pattern and mocking up the Ford/Dodge combo, seems to be about 8-9mm spacing required. Not worried about clutch at this stage, rough measurements are telling me that I can maintain existing R/R pressure plate and flywheel, use a Chrysler 9 or 9+1/2" clutch plate. The Ford bellhousing would clear the external diameter of the R/R adapter if I use socket head bolts into the 200TDI engine. Throwout bearing could most probably utilise either Ford or Dodge hydraulic clutch set up.

Have an engineering mob who can probably do the machining, in mind. I know there is a chap in the US who has done something similar with NP435 transmission to Land Rover series engines. But he recommended to revert back to the original 5 speed overdrive box to that particular engine. But this is intended to be a special project.

Would like to know what some of you guys think about this conversion.

Would the 8-9mm spacer be strong enough? Would have it done in steel, NOT alloy!. Given that the input shaft is centred by the pilot tip bearing, and the rear of the transmission has quite a substantial mount to the crossmember. The intended spacer would be bolting to the existing alloy housing at the back of the 200TDI engine and then to the CAST IRON bellhousing of the NP435.

Cheers, Dave64

[Dave64]

Hi All,

Been following these posts with interest. Now we have sorted out that the engine is the Land/Range Rover designed 200TDI, have moved onto adapting an NP435 transmission. Actually, it is the later all-synchro "close ratio" version I'm tinkering with (sometimes called the NP4530 or the NP445. Must point out that it is NOT the transmission to transfer case adaptation I'm concerned with, got that covered).

Had one sent over from the States, my contact tells me it SHOULD arrive sometime this week.

Just taking a few measurements with a vernier (haven't got to the precision measuring yet), but using a Ford version of the NP435 with a Dodge version input shaft (most internals SEEM to be able to be swapped between Ford, Dodge and International) where they seem to vary is in input shaft length and transmission to back of bellhousing pattern bolts. May even have to try and find the longest input shaft and also have it modified.

By using the old R/Rover alloy bellhousing as a pattern and mocking up the Ford/Dodge combo, seems to be about 8-9mm spacing required. Not worried about clutch at this stage, rough measurements are telling me that I can maintain existing R/R pressure plate and flywheel, use a Chrysler 9 or 9+1/2" clutch plate. The Ford bellhousing would clear the external diameter of the R/R adapter if I use socket head bolts into the 200TDI engine. Throwout bearing could most probably utilise either Ford or Dodge hydraulic clutch set up.

Have an engineering mob who can probably do the machining, in mind. I know there is a chap in the US who has done something similar with NP435 transmission to Land Rover series engines. But he recommended to revert back to the original 5 speed overdrive box to that particular engine. But this is intended to be a special project.

Would like to know what some of you guys think about this conversion.

Would the 8-9mm spacer be strong enough? Would have it done in steel, NOT alloy!. Given that the input shaft is centred by the pilot tip bearing, and the rear of the transmission has quite a substantial mount to the crossmember. The intended spacer would be bolting to the existing alloy housing at the back of the 200TDI engine and then to the CAST IRON bellhousing of the NP435.

Cheers, Dave64