18 replies to this topic

[DaveR]

I'm sure this must have been covered before, but for the life of me can't find the topic anywhere....

I'm just about to change the engine oil in my Td5 Disco. Handbook says to use a 5W/30, 5W/40 5W/50 or 10W/40 meeting ACEA A1/B1 or B2.

I was just about to pour in my trusty Mobil 1 Fully synthetic 0W/40 but noiticed it doesn't meet Acea A1/B1. It instead meets A3/B3.

Now, would I harm the engine by putting in Mobil 1 (A3/B3), or should I really stick to some A1/B1 stuff I can find??

Halfords do 5l of a semi synthetic 5W/30 for £19.99 and it meets A1/B1. Costco also sell some suitable Chevron semi synthetic oil 5W/30 at £40.23 for 20l.

Which should I go for. What do you guys use??


Cheers
Dave

[Les Henson]

It should be fully synthetic 5/30, but semi is ok. I'm not sure about other oils, as I don't tend to do that, but I doubt it would do anything much to your engine unless you work it real hard.


Les.

[BogMonster]

Castrol Magnatec A1 5w30 is what we use in them. I don't know what the difference is between A1/B1 and A3/B3 either but if you find out, please post it up so we all know!

[nicks90]

http://www.usedcarex...aspx?KB_ID=1009
oils explained in simple language.

So, how do you know which to use? Fairly simple actually. Just look for the latest quality specification letters on the container. At the moment they are “A3”, “A5” or “SM” if you have a petrol engine, “B3”, “B5” or “CI4” if it’s diesel. If the oil has petrol and diesel specifications, it’s fine for both engine types.

Non-branded oils often just show the numbers, so you may well see something like “10W30 A3 B3 SM CI4” – and you’re supposed to work out the rest for yourself. The later the oil, the higher the number and later spec oils are always compatible with earlier ones, but NOT the other way around. So, you can use A3 oil in an engine where A2 was specified, but you must not use A2 if the handbook says A3. The big name oils always conform the latest spec and will therefore be fine for any engine – again, from about 1990 onwards.

[cipx2]

ACEA is the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association (Jaguar/Land Rover is member)
You can read the oil classification in the pdf document at the bottom of this page: [url="http://www.acea.be/index.php/news/news_detail/acea_european_oil_sequences_2008/"]http://www.acea.be/i...sequences_2008/[/url]

From page 5 of the above mentioned pdf:
[quote name='http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf']«Consumer Language»:

A/B : gasoline and diesel engine oils

A1/B1 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in gasoline engines and car & light van diesel
engines specifically designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a high temperature / high shear rate
viscosity of 2.6 mPa*s for xW/20 and 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s for all other viscosity grades. These oils are unsuitable for use in
some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt.

A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline engines and car & light van diesel engines
and/or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and/or for year-round use of low viscosity
oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer.[/quote]

On the other hand, there's a TSB (September 2004 IIRC) from LR stating that you should use an A1/B1 5W-30 oil (with A3/B3 as an option only if A1/B1 is not available, which I don't think it's the case here).

[Gilslandy]

i own a td5 as well but on a defender...i give her Silkolene XTR...is it good or?? i've been using this oil for the last two yrs now.

gil

[cipx2]

If you are referring to Silkolene XTR 10W-40 then its a ACEA A3/B3 oil, not exactly a recommended LR specification - see above.
As for the grade (10W-40), it depends where on the planet you're using that Td5 Defender. 10W-40 would be more appropriate for Spain rather than UK, for example.

[Gilslandy]

i live in malta...quite warm weather...and in summer very hot...usually reaches the 38/40 degrees celcuis! do you know of any oil that is 10w-40 and A1\B1??

thanks gil

[cipx2]

LOL, your Td5 doesn't need a 40 grade oil. It gets hot in Malta indeed, but not as hot as in my neck of woods where everybody runs on the 5W-30. Being an island, the air is also more humid than inland (humid air provides better cooling).
Furthermore, the main island has what, 30 miles across it? With a speed limit of 50 mph outside build areas? Or if you ignore the speed limits, by the time you reach 80 mph you need to brake unless you want to turn it into a submarine because the road ends

The temperature ranges you see in the owners book are there considering a fully loaded vehicle vehicle, towing a fully loaded trailer, running some serious thousand miles between oil changes and running at significant high speeds or uphills (heavy loads on the engine). I really don't think this is the kind of job your Td5 is doing in Malta, or any other vehicle for that matter.

How many miles (or km) do you put on your Defender a year?

[Gilslandy]

of cors she doesnt work that much my td5 hehe i use it to go to work everyday and some offroad during the weekend and not every weekend!!! i do about 25000miles a yr. if i'm doing the estimation correctly lol!!! so you think i should give her 5/30 instead of 10/40? sorry but this grade thing i never understood!!!

here we have short roads!!! i'm planning to come to UK next year overland and there i can test my landy on long roads hehe

thanks
gil

[q-rover]

The numbers for the oils relate to the viscosity of the oil.
The first number gives an indication of viscosity at cold (40°C)
The second number gives an indication of viscosity at hot (100°C)

So th ehigher the number the 'thicker' the oil.

[nicks90]

A/B : gasoline and diesel engine oils

A1/B1 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in gasoline engines and car & light van diesel
engines specifically designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a high temperature / high shear rate
viscosity of 2.6 mPa*s for xW/20 and 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s for all other viscosity grades. These oils are unsuitable for use in
some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt.

A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline engines and car & light van diesel engines
and/or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and/or for year-round use of low viscosity
oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer.

Just been doing a bit of digging about and come up with some interesting stuff - the main thing about A1/B1 and A5/B5 and A3/B3 is what hightemp and highshear values it has.
Basically A1/B1 has the lowest HT/HS value of all the modern semi and fully synth oils. The higher the A/B number the higher the HT/HS values. This is a good thing and does not affect the oils basic viscosity properties. If anything its advantagous. Eg as the oil experiences shear forces, it gets damaged over time and the oil can no longer maintain its higher temp viscosity. So instead of the oil being 5w30, over time and high shear it may be 5w20. The more damage it gets the lower the viscosity. This is why the service manuals state "use 5w30 a1/b1 and change every 12k miles". Because in their testing they know the shear forces being applied to the oil by their engine and how much damage the oil can take before it needs changing to prevent engine damage. If it has the capacity to absorb higher shear forces then the oil will not wear out as quickly and needs less frequent oil changes.
Obviously the most important thing to worry about when choosing oil is the viscosity and if you need mineral, semi or fully synth - but the better the A/B number the better your engine will be protected due to its higher capacity to absorb the stresses of hightemp and highshear values.

If you have tuned your td5 then the forces experienced inside the lump will increase, this means you need better highshear figures to keep the crank and other major components from wrecking the oil too quickly and wearing themselves out.

A3/B3 is backward compatible.
A1/B1 is not forwards compatible.

[DaveR]

Well finally i succumbed.

Have just seen the bit about A3/B3 being backward compatible - so my trusty Mobil 1 would have been OK. However, found some Magnatec 5W/30 fully synthetic which is A1/B1 so I got some of that.

The engine in the Td5 seems fine - using no oil and very smooth and quiet and pulls like a train so I doubt Mobil 1 did any harm...

I long for the days when it was Castrol GTX or nothing!

Dave

[BogMonster]

I long for the days when it was Castrol GTX or nothing!

Me too. Engines mostly seem to burn more oil than they used to in those days as well.

[Monster]

Hi guys,

Looking to do an oil change on my D2. Our local shop has two types. Semi synthetic 5W40 Comma type stuff i think. And to my suprise Castrol Magnatec.
Unfortunately it is the 10W40 variety.

I am leaning towards the Magnatec. How much difference would this viscoity make from the 5W30 Magnatec?

We live in a hot enviroment, 20 -30 celcius, but most journeys are short and loads of starting required.

I was also considering ordering the 5W30 myself but that is 4- 5 weeks away!

You thoughts would be great.

Cheers.

[Aragorn]

I would use the 5w30 over magnatec.

Imo you can happily use semi-synth oil, just change it more regularly as it will break down faster.

[Les Henson]

I agree - 5/30 semi is best.


Les.

[BogMonster]

10w40 is specified as being OK for temperatures from -20C to over +40C so viscosity wise it will be fine in your engine - but check it is the Magnatec A1 as there are different oils sold under the Magnatec name.

[Aragorn]

Magnatec isnt fully synth, so he may as well just use the comma stuff which will likely be cheaper.