TD5 or Tdci4

[yellow]

Hi all, 

 After many years in Asia and now back in Europe I am in the market for a new defender.  My last one was a 110 TD5 with GKN Overdrive.  I drive many long distance trips, and knowing a Disco might make more sense, I prefer the Defender shape.

Now I need to make a choice, within budget.

My criteria are a little more ooommph (remaps) and less noise (GKN overdrive or 6 gears).  Occasional off-road is planned...  Other criteria would be maintainability and creature comfort (Rear passangers as well)  I am biased towards a 110, but could look into a 90 or 130 as well, as long as the 90 has forward-facing rear seats. Also not too fond of the 'Kahn over-the-top' styles.

My options:  

- Get a TD5 and change the seats front and middle with the Tdci seats set.  Add a Disco transfer case or a GKN/Roamerdrive overdrive for better cruising. Would need airco as well.

- Get a Tdci and be done with it (Really?  is the 6th gear the same as the overdrive ratio I would get on the TD5?)

Although I would drive mostly in Europe, I would certainly not mind a Right Hand Drive.

 

My question would be which one to look for and where besides ebay, gumtree and autotrader to look for these vehicles?

 

Thanks  !!!

 

[Tanuki]

Get a TD5 and fit a Disco transfer-box to get the higher gaering for 'normal' road-use? (I don't like the added complexity of things like overdrives).

I've driven Puma-engined 6-speed 90s and 110s: the ratios are, to me, deeply wierd. 1st was far too low, for normal road-driving I was giving it some revs, slipping the clutch and pulling-away in 2nd. 6th is equally too high for anything except unladen level-motorway use.

For me the Puma lumps have a horribly-narrow usable rev-range; my 90TD5 will do 70MPH in 3rd when needed. TD5 is also smoother - that extra cylinder and the Dual-Mass flywheel do away with much of the low-speed/low-gear transmission-shunt people expect in a Land-Rover.

IMHO the only downside to the TD5 is the lack of full dealer parts-support, which can be a problem if your LR is a daily-driver and 'Vehicle Off-Road" time hits you directly in the cashflow.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Tanuki

[madmatt]

Another opinion, i have had the misfortune of having a TD5 for my works motor for 6 years and hated every day I drove it. Mechanically it was as reliable as a chocolate fire guard it was still noisy and you had to flog it to tow 3.5ton.

 

I have had a tdci for the last 3 years and love it, yes 1st gear is very low and if you only ever drive on the road it may well be to low for some however if you tow regularly heavy loads it makes pulling away on any form of incline very easy and doesnt mean you have to drop in to low box which i often did in the td5.

6th I dont find to high i can sit with a loaded trailer at 60 in 6th yes if i head uphill i might need to change down but on the whole its a great motor for everyday work and lots of towing.

[Snagger]

I agree with some of what Tanuki said.  My wife had a TDCI 90 XS - first is too low, sixth is fine for the motorway (as the LT230 is 1.22), but the rev range for any torque is narrow.  I also thought the front seats were far less comfortable than the TD5 and earlier seats, but the fold up rear seats were pretty good.

A big factor is the heating and ventilation.  The TDCI has a blisteringly hot heater and pretty good aircon, where fitted.  On the down side, iIt doesn't have the bulkhead vents, so you can't get a decent breeze without the window being open and having all that noise.  Noise levels on the TDCI are pretty good..

As for the 90/110 debate, I'd only ever buy a 110 for myself.  The fold out seats of the TDCI are as good as can be, but there is still a lack of head  room, they have poor leg room (legs kinked) due to the interior wheel arches, and poor load space.  I also don't like the handling or feel of a 90 compared to a 110 - they pitch and buck too much and feel less directionally stable at speed, and the TDCIs have too stiff a factory setup for their weight.

In an ideal world, I'd probably have a TDCI 110 and swap the front seats for older.  Their performance and economy aren't far off, and while I prefer the R380 to the transit box, a reasonable (still a little low) 6th gear and 1.22 LT230 and good sound proofing make motorways much easier than the older model, but the main factor is the HEVAC being so much more effective.

[Maverik]

If you'd be towing regularly, I'd go for a Td5, I think they had the best all around capability and gearbox ratio for it, engines can be a bit temperamental, but that seems to be how they've been looked after in my opinion, the engine itself was designed to be pretty bomb proof, unfortunately the final production saw some cost cutting which didn't help... (was a Td5 hater until I took one apart and actually saw it for what it was, some lovely engineering in it).

Tdci if you're not towing regularly but had lots of motorway miles to do. As already mentioned above 1st & 2nd are really low and then you take an inordinately sized jump to 3rd, but this is easily liveable with on the road. Buckets of umph for overtaking and super nice with the decent heater etc. something to note, LR removed the carpets out of the highest spec defenders I think when they changed to the 2.2, these are a bit more rattley than the 2.4 that had full carpet. Make sure you factor that in when buying, having carpet in a 110 makes a huge difference to the sound, again in my opinion. (I was lucky enough to be able to jump between a carpeted and non carpeted 110 and when you do it like that you very quickly notice the difference).

Good luck

[FridgeFreezer]

A mate who has a TDCI 110 loves it, he tows 2-3tons all day long and the only thing he doesn't like is the non-salisbury back axle which he had no end of trouble with and was going to swap for a Salisbury once the warranty ran out.

I've never been wowed by the TD5's, they seem to have enough gremlins but also not very impressive performance or economy compared to the older simpler TDi's. The TDCI is in a million transits and also jags, it's never going to set the world on fire but should be pretty solid and easy to get parts for.

The TDCI era defenders also had a load of small improvements like the galvanised doors and nicer seats. Just make sure you secure the thing as they get nicked for a pastime!

[Lightning]

The newest TD5's are over ten years old now, and it's getting harder to find a good one, although they are out there.

TDCi is better on the motorway but the engine is less economical than TD5. Both engines can be remapped which addresses any performance issues. Overdrive can be fitted to TD5 but it costs over £1500.

Also which interior do you prefer? TDCi has less room in the front due to the big dash, and needs aircon due to the lack of vent flaps.

I do 15,000 miles per year in my 110 TD5 and it's been pretty reliable. l have driven the TDCi and it seems some are nice and others nasty to drive. Personally l don't like the Ford engine but if you want a Defender less than ten years old it's that or nothing.

One other thing....TDCi 2.4 Station Wagons pay £510 road tax while the post 2012 2.2 pay £230.

TD5 pre March 2006 it's £290. Post March 2006 it's £510!

Make sense of that. 

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Lightning