bosbeer Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 http://alternativegassolutions.com/ http://www.gasconversionkits.com/ Is this snake oil ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Of the highest grade, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparg Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Ah! can one run a Td5 (with the higher injector pressures) on snake oil? - or should I mix it 50-50 with diesel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 A car running on water runs cooler which helps the overall effect of global warming due to the heat emitted by running machinery each and every day. i love this bit - the men in white coats have never mentioned latent heat before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Ford GM Vauxhall SAAB BWM all spend Millions of £ and $ in R&D. But..... someone somewhere has managed to work out a way to get this much improvment from it seems ANY engine just by zippytieing a bottle of Evian to the engine and connecting a few wires ...and they have got up to 40% better MPG All those R&D boys must be so hacked off to have missed this find FFS...... Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpants Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 The oily-ness of this has been debated thoroughly already: Browns Gas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abos Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 http://alternativegassolutions.com/http://www.gasconversionkits.com/ Is this snake oil ? The links you mentioned looks like cheap knock off of a technology being developed. http://hytechapps.com/aquygen developed a HHO welding system HHO welding is well known and seems to work well, I am not sure if it will benefit a vehicle. Snake oil ? Perhaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Well, actually, this isn't as much snake oil as you might think.... The company in question is most certainly dubious, and their claims of 40% improvement in MPG are ridiculous, but the theory is sound... The principle is the same as introducing LPG into a diesel - the hydrogen (in the same way as LPG) promotes a more efficient burn in the cylinder, therefore the engine uses less fuel for a given power. The energy used to make the H2 is less than the energy gained by the better burn, therefore you have a net gain in efficiency. These guys have developed a system that is currently returning a 9.5% improvement in MPG on trucks: http://www.btrack.co.uk/index.html The system isn't on their website as it is still in testing. Shipping companies are also currently looking at this technology. So yes, the theory is sound, but it takes a little more than just by zippytieing a bottle of Evian to the engine and connecting a few wires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 They omit the fact that introducing hydrogen into a diesel will destroy the engine pretty quicky. But for a while you will get better mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_Star Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 That's one of the worst close mic'd VO's I've ever heard, dry mouth too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 The problem with these systems is energy efficience. You can generate hydrogen from water, we do it at work to run gas analysis equipment BUT, you need to put more power in to generate the hydrogen than you will get back by burning the hydrogen, the power to liberate the hydrogen comes from the alternator, which is run by the engine.... so ultimately there is no gain or even a potential loss. If this sort of thing acually worked we would have self powering cars (and power stations!) run on water, since as far as I am aware no one has managed to do this (and if any one works out how the reward would be huge), the process cannot have been made self generating. Ths voltage you need to put through th water is quite high to "crack" the water down to hydrogen and oxygen, you also need to run the generator units on VERY clean water as an impurity is left behind and ultimately clogs the unit up (they have a clean up process built in when this happens). We only generate hydrogen on site due to the safety issues in having hydrogen cylinders around otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Sean, I think you missed the point: The extra efficiency is gained by a more efficient burn of the diesel in the cylinder rather than burning the H2. The greater efficiency outweighs the energy used to crack the water in the first place. BTrack are using a system of catalysts in addition to electrolysis that seems to be working quite well. Time will tell if it is viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest otchie1 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Sean, I think you missed the point:The extra efficiency is gained by a more efficient burn of the diesel in the cylinder rather than burning the H2. The greater efficiency outweighs the energy used to crack the water in the first place. BTrack are using a system of catalysts in addition to electrolysis that seems to be working quite well. Time will tell if it is viable. No, physics will tell if it's viable and physics already has. It's a croc. Yes, you can add hydrogen but you have to find find some other fuel to burn to crack it first and then you can carry it around and burn it. There is no merit whatsoever in trying to produce it as you burn it as you produce it as you burn it - it always takes more energy to produce than it liberates as it burns. Hydrogen is a battery, not a fuel and it's certainly not a catalyst (excepting correction by your chemsitry lordships) Remember, a simple poxy 2 litre car at 2000 rpm sucks through 2000 litres of air in a minute - how much hydrogen do you need to produce (and how fast) to make a dent in that much O + N? At what point does its supposed catalytic effect cut in? How much exta power will it liberate from the diesel? How much energy will it take to just cart the stuff around? How much energy will be lost to making the H? Circular? Very. How H injection is supposed to work is by altering the ratio of gases in the air charge and thereby allowing much higher compression ratios before detonation - presumably the H is clever in displacing O rather than N but chemistry is not for me. In that tight constraint ie in that it allows higher compression engines to be built, it may have a future but I haven't looked for any studies yet. Sounds very similar to water injection though and although that works it's uneconomic. Lastly , a very good way to see if a 'new' technology is snake oil is just to Google it - lots of www.hydrogenNewWorldFuel.com and payLessForGas.com type URL hits with cached promises of DIY savings if you only part with a few hundred quid is a sure sign of snake oiliness whereas a list of .pdf files from Southampton University is a sign of solid engineering thinking. /rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.