geoffbeaumont

Or to put it another way - ignore it

Got a 105Amp Bosch alternator out of a Mondeo today to replace the ailing original item. Only one catch, it's got an extra wire...where does green and black go to? Anyone making chocolate references will be shot at dawn... It's got red and black, white and black and the big hefty orange one same as the lucas. What do I do with the extra wire?

Got a 105Amp Bosch out of a Mondeo today - £30 from a local breakers. Seems to be the going rate round here (and I wasn't in much of a position to haggle ). Only one catch, it's got an extra wire...where does green and black go to? Anyone making chocolate references will be shot at dawn... It's got red and black, white and black and the big hefty orange one same as the lucas. Wonder if I can just ignore the extra wire...?

I've been meaning to write this up for a while - about a year, in fact! Commonly, people repair worn Electronic Air Suspension (EAS) systems by replacing them with coil springs. While paying someone else to work on your EAS can quickly get expensive, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty it isn't that hard to work on. The most common problem is worn out bladders (the actual air 'springs'). Mind had done around 130,000 miles, which seems perfectly reasonably to me - coil springs would probably be getting a little tired by this point, too, and they're just as hard and more expensive to change. There are two approaches you can take to replacing the air springs - replace the whole units, including the plungers, or replace only the rubber bladders. If you get it done at a garage, they'll do the former. It's less work, so if you're paying for labour there's no benefit to doing bladders only. If labour costs aren't an issue, you can buy a full set of bladders for around the same cost as a single complete unit - that's what I did, and what I've described here. WARNING: The EAS system uses high air pressures - 10 bar or 150 psi. Goggles are essential fitting the new bladders, gloves advisable. If it all goes horribly wrong, that's your responsibility - this worked for me, and I didn't lose any body parts in the process, but you make your own decision as to the risks involved. Raise the suspension to full height and support the chassis on axle stands - one each side, one under the front cross member, one under the rear. Make sure these are secure - your life depends on it! Lower the suspension then disable it using the switch under the back of the right hand front seat. Disconnect the multiway connector from front of the EAS ECU (at the front under the same seat). Use wires to jumper across the multiway plug and open the outlet valve for each bladder to release any remaining pressure. Unbolt the top (or bottom - but top is less likely to be rusted up...) of the dampers, then lower the axle as far as it will go. Take great care not to damage the height sensor by stressing it or turning it inside out. It may be worth unbolting one end of the sensor. We didn't, but see later... A closer view of the deflated bladder. The height sensor can be clearly seen on the right, between the chassis and radius arm. You can see just how badly my bladders needed to be replaced... The construction is similar to that of tyres. A close up of the worn out bladder. The area of severe wear is where the bladder folds over itself on the bottom plunger. It isn't obvious unless the suspension is at off-road height. To business... Obviously, the bladders aren't going to just fall off in your hands (well, it'd scare me if they did...). Put a foot on the end of the axle to push it down a bit further (again, watch that height sensor) then get a good solid lever behind the bladder and pop it off the top plunger. Some of the bladders required a bit more persuasion. We levered them off the bead on the top plunger with a flat viscous fan spanner while pulling on the lever. Don't use anything which might damage the alloy plunger. Once the bladder is free of the top plunger, plant a foot on the axle, grasp the bladder firmly and pull. Caution; you will go flying when it comes off, so check what's behind you! The new bladder is an AirBagMan one, slightly longer than the original, but you can still clearly see how much the old bladder has deformed and shortened. It's also much less flexible than the new one (you can really feel the difference in the ride). Obviously, these are front bladders. Another view of the old and new bladders side by side. These are front bladders. This shot is of the rear bladders, old and new. It's fine to reuse the plungers - they should easily last the lifetime of the vehicle. Clean them up and dry them and they're ready for the new bladders to be fitted. This is the top plunger. The bottom plunger will probably look a bit scruffier than the top one - as long as the bead the bladder sits on is in good nick, it should be fine. Here, the photo's run out as we had our hands a bit full...you really need two people to fit the new bladders. One to actually fit the bladder and the other to operate the pump and air valves using jumpers across the ECU multiplug. Don't even think about reconnecting the ECU until everything else is sorted - it'll get confused and you'll end up handing your local land rover specialist a nice fat cheque just to plug it into a diagnostic computer and reset it. In any case, jumpering the multiplug gives you precise control of re-inflating the bladders, which you need. Silicon lubricant is apparently great for refitting the bladders. I haven't tried that, but soapy water works just fine. Try not to get it inside the bottom plunger as you don't want moisture corroding the insides of your EAS system. The trick is to get the bladder sat as straight as possible between the pistons, position it so it seals against the pistons then one person holds it there while the second person opens the in valve using a jumper across the multiplug (remember to run the pump every now and then to keep air in the tank). The aim is to 'pop' the bladder onto the beads. Once you've seated both ends you need to get it to fold down over the bottom piston - try to prevent the bladder popping off to one side while gradually adding air. It's best to use your feet for this, partly because it's easier to apply enough force, partly because it keeps your face out of the way when the bladder blows off the plungers. Note when, not if - you'll go back to square one a few times before you manage to get the bladder properly seated. Very frustrating, but very satisfying when it finally pops into place. Finally, raise the axle back up and bolt the damper back on. Take care that you don't turn the height sensors inside out, as you'll damage the potentiometer and the ECU will then generate a fault code and go into limp-home mode. This means it drops the vehicle onto the bump stops and refuses to do anything else until you drive to a land rover specialist and pay them substantial amounts of money to reset and recalibrate it with a diagnostic computer. Remember that jumper you were using on the multiplug? You can use that to inflate the suspension so you don't have to drive there on the bump stops. The potentiometer itself may repairable - take a look, because they're expensive for what they are. As an added bonus, because the AirBagMan bladders are longer you can have your EAS set to ride higher when in off road mode - I think I've seen suggestions that they're good for and extra 1/2" to 1". I haven't done this, so I can't comment on whether it's worthwhile. It requires a diagnostic computer, so for most of us it's not a DIY job. More extreme lifts are available using alternate bladders or complete units - take a look at RangeRovers.net's EAS section, which has expanded quite a bit since I originally read up on this job on there

Haven't managed to track down a 100Amp Mondeo one (actually I did find one, but not at a scrappies I can actually get to during their opening hours ). Going rate even for Mondeo ones seems to be around £35, for a non-refurbed untested (but probably warrantied) one. At least from the few scrappies that actually give prices on the web.

There are several alternators on there finishing in the next few days - trouble is I really need one now...

Let me get this straight...they put alloys and new tyres on it, but left the cash machine in the back...? Unbelievable...

Oh well, didn't get it On the phone to the local land rover breakers tomorrow, I guess. Hope the the old heap makes it to work and back tomorrow. Sounded like the battery was a bit weak when I started her today - she's been sitting since saturday afternoon so I'm not sure whether she's slowly running the battery down while she's standing or just not charging it properly when she's running. Disconnected it and put it on charge anyway. Think I'll take the charger to work and plug it in there, just to be on the safe side...

Dribble...that looks the business. Can I have one too, please?

Well, the forum doesn't reckon Tonk's online any more (not that that should prevent him logging in anyway - though it might get a bit confused about what he had and hadn't read if he was logged in on more than one machine at the same time). Can he log in now?

My dad has a sort of giant pantograph for his router - uses it to cut designs into the furniture he makes. Bit of a knack to using it but it's not that hard, I would have thought a mini one with a dremel would if anything be easier.

Fridge, you should be banned just for posting that...

It's already the correct pulley from the look of it, just the mounting I can't see. Nope I don't even have a winch at the moment, but I figure if I get this then I don't have to worry about uprating it if I fit one in the future. I'll probably have filled the alternator with crud and killed it by then, though Limping along...one day I'll get everything on that truck fixed at the same time

Anyone know if this would fit on a '93 3.9 (left hand mounting, poly V belt)? Bit pricey for a second hand one, but it is 150Amp. Can't see enough of the mountings to tell if they're the same as the older alternators. Some daft bugger will bid it up to silly money at the last minute, of course

Glad to hear it. Hopefully mine will be too once I get my hands on a new alternator...

Thanks for the warning - I'll double check that. '93 Range Rovers have a belt arrangement that was unique to that year (I know 'cause the alternator belt is a pain to get hold of - no-one holds it in stock). No idea how many grooves it has.

Hi Ben, It won't ping all over the place The arm hooks onto another arm with a peg on it which is fairly steady. You can hook it a bit closer to the hole if you need to. You'll need to remove the dizzy - it's probably possible to do in situ, but it would be very fiddly. Take the dizzy cap off so you can see what you're doing. Don't forget to put the plastic seal in place before you try to hook the arm - it gets in the way less if you put it on the vacuum advance unit rather than the dizzy. Don't overtighten the bolts, they strip easily.

Noticed all the 90Amp ones were Bosch, too, so I'm guessing better quality than the standard Lucas jobby?

Stuck a DVM across the battery this afternoon - even revving the engine it's not even managing 12.5V with all the electrics on, and the voltage is pretty unstable too. Jonathan's Saab was holding a rock steady 13.75V or thereabouts. Looks like a shot alternator to me. Tried to get a replacement, but I only found a couple of scrappies that were open on a Saturday - one told me very curtly that they didn't have any 100Amp alternators, the other (Stirchley Spares) invited me to come down and have a root. They didn't have any 100Amp ones, but there were several 90Amp Mondeo alternators if anyone needs one of them. Should probably have bought one as a temporary fix and just not used the heated screen for a while.

I paid about £230 for AirBagMan ones (also made by Dunlop, but slightly longer than standard), direct from their EU importer in Ireland. It's more hassle fitting the bladders than complete units, but it's still only a days DIY work.

Are you talking about Pay & Play or a competitive event? It's not hard to get motor insurance which will cover you off road for non-competitive use. As far as forming a club goes - my feeling is that clubs of this type tend to work best in a relatively small geographical area, and even if you ignore the fact that this is an international forum with members all over the world we still have a good proportion of members who don't live in the South of England. If you decide you're prepared to take on the burden of running a club, would you be prepared to organise a decent number of events up round Aberdeen and Inverness for the members up there? I'd be concerned about forming an elite of 'proper' paid up club members, too - I know that's not your intention, but it may well be what would happen over time.

Could be. I haven't (so far) had any other wierdness, other than a rough idle which seems to be much worse on petrol than gas, so I'd put it down to the ignition timing being a bit too advanced for petrol at idle. It's getting worse, though, so can't be that. Scrap yard time, methinks.

Now what? Driving back from a youth event at West Brom tonight I lost power to the gas kit (or so it appeared - lights went out on the switch and it was definitely running on petrol). Figured I'd got a loose wire on the battery - not the first time, they're a bit fragile - but when I stopped the LPG light only was flashing when I turned the ignition off...wierd... Decided to disconnect the battery when I got home, and the LPG kit wires appeared to be secure. The fuel guage has been wandering up and down - anywhere been completely empty and two thirds full - all week. Thought at first it was using obscene amounts of petrol, then got suspicious when it started going up the gauge. Last night I was sat waiting for someone with the ignition on (but not the engine running) and watching it go up and and down... And sorting out the engine earth hasn't entirely fixed the alternator charge light either - it was on faintly this morning - so there's still something not quite kosher there. These are all electrical problems, all new this week. I'm thinking they might just be connected...? Any ideas? I don't even know where to start with this one And I'm supposed to be back at West Brom tomorrow morning

LPG is also not going to suit the type of use you describe. Most, if not all, current LPG conversions are designed to start on petrol then switch over once the engine reaches a predetermined temperature (the key point being that the engine coolant which is piped through the LPG vapouriser is warm enough to stop it freezing up). I find I do the first half to two miles on petrol, depending on ambient temperature and whether the truck has run already that day. If the engine's already warm it switches over straight away. That's fine if you do mostly longish distances, but if you do mostly short runs petrol will account for a significant percentage of your fuel use, and that's obviously going to push your fuel costs per mile up quite a bit. I think I just registered a vote for diesel. That's twice this week

I think valance is a US term for the wing (which would fit)? Doubtless one of our friends from the colonies will correct me