greenmeanie

Arjan, you are correct. As stated the spline to mount the steering wheel changed at various times and body styles between 36 spline and 48 spline. The Late Series IIA steering wheel is 48 spline and as far as I can tell should mount just fine to steering column upper NTC9068. The spline I don't know much about, but I don't think changed over production, is the universal joint end of the column which I want to confirm is 19mm-48. If the spline is what I believe I can get a U-joint to adapt to what I already have which fits all the holes etc to pass through the bodywork to the PS box while the LR collapsible link won't fit the existing set up. I am fairly sure I can strip the inner column from the Defender assembly and make it work with my series outer column so I can keep all the original horn function and mounting etc giving me a comparatively cheap nut and bolt solution thus avoiding the whole machine shop issue. I'd really appreciate confirmation of the spline on the lower end of the steering column.

I don't think the UJ end has changed over time. I think it should be 19mm-48. The steering wheel spline is what changed with some being 19mm-48 and others 19mm-36. Damned if I'd know why they would bother making the difference as they seem to have used both types of splines on different body styles at the same time. In this case I know the Series steering wheel I have is 19mm-48 but it is the UJ end spline I want confirmed so I can chase down a matching joint that adapts from the Rover column to the Borgeson 1"DD collapsible link. With confirmation of the spline I'm pretty sure I can strip the inner column out of the NTC9068 and make it work with my existing system.

Great, thanks. I want to find an NTC9068 and see what the inner column looks like. I think I can find a UJ to adapt one to the ret of my system.

I suppose that I should take advantage of you knowledge here and ask if you know how many splines are on the UJ end of a Defender steering column? I currently have a 36 spline 19mm uj on to a 1" double D UJ. I would feel a bit dumb having a shaft machined if a Defender 48 spline inner column is a direct fit. I thought it was 48 spline but am happy to be proven wrong.

The above answer is correct. There are many ways to play the game to try and pass inspection but the bloke who evaluates the vehicle know his stuff and is no idiot when it comes to signing off. I have already done it once with a 101 with a disc brake conversion and had to go and hunt paperwork for that. While not declaring anything as formal as TUV certification the inspector was accommodating enough to accept a letter from Zeus explaining their history as an engineering firm and knowledge of brake modifications. I spent several hours in person and on the phone with the inspector and he was a decent bloke with a sense of humour and a passion for his work. The sum total is that they will accept many modifications with a good explanation and say, pointing out that it is the same as a Defender for seats, when it comes to critical safety items it is all by the book and you have to jump through the hoops. Its not impossible but it does take time, money and determination. If you get caught trying to play silly buggers lying or trying to sneak stuff past him then the inspector will just shut you off and you will never to register the vehicle. Beyond that there is the usual caveats of such things being fine until they are not and you find your insurance void for illegal modification and the legal system here comes down on you like a tonne of bricks. While it was most likely different for OEMs when you import a vehicle here the only sound check they run is for the exhaust system where you may not exceed a certain decibel level at a specified distance from the vehicle. If the 101 can pass then pretty much anything short of running zoomies should be good although stopping Harleys and issuing tickets for too loud exhausts is a favourite past time of cops here.

The US was great for that too as there is a culture of building and modifying vehicles so there were plenty of automotive machine shop who had the tools to grind shafts etc and very good pricing. Sadly for me this would have been an easy task had I got to it before moving out here.

The one thing I have changed since I took that photo years ago is that I swapped the drop arm arm for a Defender one (RTC6399 or RTC6398) which fits the Scout PS box spline. It has an integral ball joint so you also need the steering cross rod eye end (ANR2859 or ANR2858). One benefit is that it provides one end of a steering damper mount for those that need one.

Yup, your last comment is about right. I had an old 101 column altered in the hope of getting a Double D end put on it. I walked in, told them what it is, what I wanted and said its for a go cart I'm building for my son. No problem. Tell them its modified steering on a truck and they won't touch it with a barge pole. The background here is for the Rover community here as I was expecting the common 'Use a Defender column' answer. I might give your suggested company a call and see what they say.

I hope these piccies show up. IMG_1359 by IMG_1369 by IMG_1370 by IMG_1557 by

When it comes to regulation, passing inspection and insurance there is a distinction between an OEM welding the column where they have a formal design process leading to drawings, weld specifications, quality control and testing signed off by a chief engineer and backed up by corporate liability insurance and having a private entity or shop making a weld on a modification. Having discussed the matter with the vehicle inspection agency they will accept a machined part but a welded modification is completely forbidden.

Its not jut the box but the linkage and UJ interfaces between the box and the column which is the concern. In the US the PS box is typically mounted on the outside of the chassis rail and you have the various holes cut in the wing panels, custom splash guards, column mount and a link bar that incorporates the collapsible section required for safety. Its all only metal so I can cut it all off and start again but from my current set of quotes I can achieve what I need cheaper by machining an inner column down. The question is based on having machine shop quotes. If the part is only surface hardened then I can save money by grinding this away roughly down to size and the shop will do the finishing on a lathe and milling machine which is relatively quick and cheap. If it is through hardened as I expect and somewhat confirmed above then it has to get ground down which is a longer an more expensive process. When dealing with machine shops it pays to know what you have, what you want and then we can discuss how to get there.

This is not an option as it does not mate with the rest of the system which is based on US parts on a Scout II PS box. I also want to keep the original steering wheel and horn connection etc which is part of a IIA column. The aim is to replace the existing part which can be achieved by machining down an existing column so avoiding welding

I have an existing power steering conversion on a Series IIA that used the original steering column with the scroll removed and a spline end welded in place instead to mount to a UJ. This was made professionally and the welds inspected so I know it is a good part and it worked well and was perfectly legal but I have now moved countries and welded modifications on steering components are verboten. I now need to replace the column and can achieve what I need by machining down the scroll end to what I need. This gets me to my question. I know the scroll is hardened to prevent wear in the ball races for the Burmann nut. This means it is difficult to turn the part down to the right diameter. Dose anyone know if the scroll piece is through hardened meaning it will need to be ground or is the hardening only to a set depth meaning I can grind it away leaving 'softer' metal underneath that is easier to work with? I can deal with both situations but I prefer to know what I am dealing with when I talk to the machine shop.

Thank you gentlemen. That widens the search which makes things a lot easier. Can you also tell what the two widths of radius arm are? I can obviously measure the old ones but knowing both widths would help.

Gentlemen, After a rather embarrassing moment I have wrecked the front axle on my 2001 Defender 110 SW. I can buy most of the parts easily enough but have run into a problem as I bent the axle casing. I have been trying to find part number FRC4307 but the only ones available from the usual vendors are LR parts at an eyewatering price. I am not in the UK but I have searched on the local web only to find used Defender axles are not readily available but those for Discovery and Range Rovers classics are. I believe the Discovery part number is FTC4417 while there appears to be a range of part numbers for the RR. Does anyone know what the difference between the Defender and Discovery axle casings is? Could I use a Discovery axle casing and simply replace everything from the swivel balls out to turn it into a Defender axle? I am a bit stuck and need to get this old bus back on the road.

I haven't tried myself but you might consider poking around in the US to see what fits a Buick 300. I think the heads match but I am sure you'll be able to find someone on a US forum that can verify. I have seen some block huggers and being a 4.9L I can only imagine they breathe better.

Dremel tool with a sanding drum. I believe there are many accessories to allow you to set up the correct angle.

This is a good manual with detailed explanation of the speedo and odometer operation. http://www.tr3a.info/PDFs/speedo.pdf I have been through several 101 speedos over the years and I tend to find it is either the magnetism driving the cup that fails or the cup/shaft/needle itself seems to develop excess friction. My current operates well except that it tends to stick at 40km/h. Above that it sweeps and below that it sweeps but it has that one sticky point. No idea why.

This may sound odd but it is worth trying a local shop sign maker. i.e. the ones with big plastic letters. When I was looking at CNC cutting tools for my company there were plenty of demonstrations of cutting thick clear plastic by manufacturers of CNC router tables marketing them to this industry.

Again this is not as easy as a series PS conversion. Given that the steering column angle is fixed that dictates the angle of the steering box and the chassis rail position to weld a mount dictates the vertical position of the box. Your first problem will be making sure the pitman arm isn't blocked by the chassis rail as it heads towards full lock. You could play with the steering box angle by adding a UJ at the column to steering box joint but then you have to factor in how you support the steering column. You have no footwell to bolt to as in a series PS conversion so now you have to fabricate column mounting brackets which makes the job more complex again. You can't play much with column angle as the clearance between the steering wheel and you knees and stomach even with the smaller 101 wheel so you steering box location for your design is pretty heavily constrained. You will still be limited on the steering box angle to clear the bottom of the chassis rail with the pitman arm. From this you are driven to a fairly specific location for the pitman arm end of the box. After that you will find yourself very lucky indeed if your steering linkage arm is parallel with the pivot of the front axle. Do you expect to change the pivot motion and steering linkage angles without affecting bump steer?

Regardless of the geometry of the steering bars and the bump steer potential you have outriggers in the way which would require significant butchery. If you accept the fabrication aspect it can be done without making the other compromises inherent in your idea.

I have enough trouble getting UK ebayers to even ship around the UK to my brother's house let alone to here in Switzerland. The one thing I find I have to watch for is to make sure that VAT is applied by the correct country. I don't think this is a huge problem in the EU but it makes a difference for me as UK VAT is 20% (AT least that's what some have tried to add) while Swiss import tax is 8%. It makes a big difference on a big order. Even some of the big names in LR parts are prone to forget until given a polite reminder. Some customs brokers will also try and take you for a ride on the cost of filling out some forms so it is worth noting the potential hidden costs which at times appear to be applied at random.

Most galvanizers only want to work with clean metal - no paint, no rust and no waxoil/grease or engine oil. This is partly to and will charge you for the pleasure or they will have the name of a specialist and you can have it done prior. Prior is a good plan as what you get back allows you to see any thin spots and repair any corrosion before the zinc goodness goes on. Bare in mind you will have to have any bulkhead prepped other than brand new from the likes of Pegasus so finding another with unknown issues may be no better than working with what you've got. Oh, and many have a minimum price up to a certain weight of parts to be dipped. If you encounter this consider all the other steel bits and bobs that make up a Land Rover that could go in the pot for very little extra cost.

The 101 left service in the early 1990s before Britpart entered the game. The steering equipment is unique to the truck so it is all Genuine parts. There have been some aftermarket parts made for 101s but not steering parts. Again, have any of these people with broken relay shafts ever managed to have a professional engineer attribute the failure to the force applied by a power steering conversion or even, for that matter brute force applied through manual steering? I'll bet not. There are many potential causes for a shaft to fail in which case it is a rather invalid statement to try and justify a failure due to the force potentially applied by power steering. I was not denying the fact that PAS will add force to the system. I first pointed out that turning the wheels on dry tarmac is not a measure of the max force it will see.so its a pretty pointless example. The max force occurs when the steering hits the stops and the relief valve opens on a hydraulic system. You seem to think there is a massive increase of the forces in the system with PAS while I point out that while greater they are not drastic i.e they might double. I pointed out that the force added by the PAS is not very significant compared to the yield strength of the components. Even if you take the maximum force I measured (Note you don't normally do this when PAS is helping) add the 70NM of the system linked you still have a safety factor to yield (Note this is deformation and not shear failure) of over 3.0 for the 3/4inch dia column which is the smallest cross section of the system. You are well within the operating range for almost infinite life without deformation. This is normal automotive design safety factors. There is more to it than that but this is enough for a forum. The strength of the recirculating nut to sector shaft is interesting but the calculations are not too difficult. Bear in mind the entire system was designed before the magic of FEA software. On a 101 you can't drive the steering linkage directly from a PAS box directly linked to the column due to the forward control layout. On a 101 the fore and aft linkage actually passes the control input aft to the relay. You need to keep the relay in place to put the steering linkage bar in line with the axle. This is not like a series. You could substitute a PS box in place of the burmann nut at the base of the steering column as this is the weakest part of the system. This is what most systems attempt to do but the problem is, as pointed out by the OP, finding a PS box that has the correct input to output conversion and fits to the chassis without serious alteration. It has been done in various ways, usually compromising on one of the stated requirements, but it is not easy or cheap. Adding it into the column just has its own set of compromises.

Ah playing engineer again. Your theory is wrong. The maximum torque applied by the PS will occur when the steering is turned to the stops and the actual value is dictated by the bypass spring and orifice. The only torque factor that is some what time dependent is the rate of body rise due to turning the steering. On a 101 this is not a major factor in the steering loads. You also have to be careful making comparisons with your Series Rover as it is not apples to apples. The relay shaft at least is considerably larger and it has been to long since I rebuilt one to remember the sector shaft dimensions. Even the steering ratios are different with the series being 15.6-23.8 at full lock while the 101 goes from 23.3 to 25.7 at full lock. The leverage ratios are quite different. For what its worth the 101 steering is not impossible to move when stationary. It takes approx. 75NM to turn with bar grips, 32PSI on dry concrete. I know. I have one and I have measured. Of course on the original 16" steering wheel that translates into 375N of force. Its not easy, its not fun and it will make a man of you but it is doable. The biggest problem you have is getting enough preload in the steering to overcome the distortion of the big 9.00X16 tyre casing before the wheel will actually turn. In static steering it all feels a bit rubbery and if you let go the steering has quite a lot of kick back. That's indicative of the amount of force required to deform the tyre prior to it actually moving. Here's a link for electric power steering offered for Land Rover among others showing a max torque of 40NM which can uprate to 70NM. IT is probably a bit anaemic for a 101 on 9.00X16 but when you consider the yield strength of a 19mm steel bar you will see there is a large factor of safety. There are many reasons beyond simple shear stress that will cause a shaft to fail but brute force from a power steering box is not going to be one of them. There is a lot of typical quality parts from Britpart so we should exclude them. Can you show a sector shaft, column or relay shaft that you can directly attribute the root cause of failure due to power steering?