dangerous doug
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Posts posted by dangerous doug
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3 minutes ago, sean f said:
On bigger lathes such as my Colchester Triumph 2000 the electrical motor is started and then runs continuously whilst the lathe is used, the control lever then uses a clutch mechanism to engage the drive and spin the chuck either forwards or backwards, the motor continues to spin in the same direction all the time.
On a M300 there is no clutch and the motor is started and stopped to spin the chuck.
In use with a normal full 3 phase power supply there would be little effective difference in use for most users. The issues can arise when using a static or rotary 3 phase convertor to power the lathe that they often don't like being started and stopped or it has to be done at the convertor rather than using the lathe controls (again the full reason for this would need to come from some one with more electronic skills than me), a lot of VFD's have a pendant type controller which with some clever wiring (cleverer than me anyway!) can be wired in to operate from the lathe controls which keeps things neat or mounted on the lathe. It can all be sorted but sometimes takes a bit more thought. Many VFD's will also start a motor gently to reduce the start up power draw and allow a smaller cheaper VFD to be used, mostly this isn't going to be to much of an issue but it can be for some things like thread cutting.
I get what you’re saying now. This lathe is standard DOL with a phase swap controlled by contactors shown in the pic below
the VFD can either be run as a little powerstation(really not advisable) or it can control fwd, rev and stop through the internal 24v circuitry pictured here
you are spot on for the acceleration ramps, last night I had to draw a very shallow one for my drill VFD to start the lathe but when it got up to speed it was “ok”. decel also took a while as I do t have a resistor bank to dump the current
like I said I’m looking at alternatives at the moment. The rotary units seem to be the best for output but the cost of buying and running them is putting me off.
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6 hours ago, vulcan bomber said:
Personally I don't see the point In a VFD on a manual lathe. RPM isn't that critical within the couple of hundred RPM.
It’s a cheap and fairly simple way of getting 3phase but also has its problem. I don’t use them for speed controls or anything like that it’s just on/off set at a static 50hz
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Today diddnt turn out the way I expected and was a bit all over the place.
first things first, I took the advice from @vulcan bomber and got a bed stop. This was harder than I thought but I Found a guy with a NOS one local ish but my god the price!
another purchase was the quick change tool post. I was going to hold off on this until I took the old one apart to see what I was dealing with and it looked like it was full of mud. I wiped the worst of it off but me being me, once I see it I have to clean it and I diddnt want to put the time and effort into doing so. After trawling the internet and getting all the conflicting info I got a wedge type BXA as I thought it would fit the aesthetics of the machine a bit better. And it fit
But as you can see from this photo the stud doesn’t fit. It’s m12 and the stud for the new post is 5/8unf
I have a 5/8unf tap so thought about drilling the cross slide out but diddnt really like that idea, could have also spun the 5/8 stud down and tapped it to m12 but diddnt have a working lathe. so left it alone until I could make my mind up
this brings us to the VFD…..ooooh that VFD. It’s an alvitar31, I have experience with this drive at work. It is pretty good untill it stops working for no reason. The one I got from eBay is one of those drives. It diddnt matter what I did I couldn’t get an output, even wired in my diagnostic pad and couldn’t get it to jog manually so that’s going back. The little Chinese one however, with a few setting changes worked! Giving me a functioning lathe(sort of)
so I turned that down, put a die in the wrench and held it against the stud with the tail stock and it came out pretty good for the first time ever operating this thing. Just need to set it back up and cut a little away behind the thread for clearance but I don’t have a sutable tool yet. The bed stop was really handy for this
Viola
so giving up on this inverter lark makes me look at other ways of running the machine. There are diy plans for rotary converters….but that’s more work. There are these magic little boxes that I’m pretty sure are just stinemeg(not sure how it’s spelled) connections using phase shifting….basically just a capacitor between 2 phases. Or I could get a static converter.
So guess what I’ll be researching for a while😂
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30 minutes ago, landroversforever said:
In a nice way… Are you not short enough for it to sit on the deck and be the right height? Lifting one end at a time onto block with a pry bar isn’t too difficult. So it can sit down closer to the floor for now until it’s time to move it.
Yes, I am. Any other time it would be more of a problem for you as you’re a lot taller but after several back injuries I can’t stay still for too long without it hurting and I can see standing hunched over will be an issue. My work bench is the same, it’s a few inches higher than “standard” and it makes a massive difference for me….everyone else hates it though 😂
1 hour ago, Stellaghost said:Looks like a good boring bar, they can be quite expensive to buy new
Looking forward to seeing your future turning projects
Regards Stephen
big boy isn’t it. Havnt really had a good look at it but it looks like it’s been violated with a grinder at some point, unless some come in an odd shape.
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So it’s in and it’s on the floor. It’s not in its final position though. I could use violence, push, pull and bar it in to place but there is an easier way.
I was on my own today so moving it around was double hard and I’m Sure I took more photos today but apparently not.
in its temporary home
dug out the tooling I got with it from the swarf tray, all different sizes but gives me an idea of what to get in future
switch cabinet isn’t big enough to house the VFD so I’m going to have to think of something else. I could remote mount it but I would rather keep it all together. I’m not going to be using the lamp so I could pick up off of the bolt holes that it mounts to and set it above the gearbox
wiring looks very simple. I have to look at the drawing but I can potentially just pick up the A1 feeds of the contactors to get my fwd/rev/start and stop and not mess with the existing panel too much
after doing this to get it off the pallet and @elbekko posting video of a similar thing, decided the first project for this thing will be making riser feet.
I have the monster pin from the skip which will be perfect for this. It’s 4” od and 20” long so I’ll be able to get 4 nice chunks out of it. The reasoning for this is later in the year I’ll be having a big move around and clear out in the workshop. I’ll be wanting to move this thing again and at the moment I can only lift it length ways with the crane. If I can rase it up a bit so I can get the legs of the crane under it it’ll make my job 100 times easier and I’ll be able to get it up agains the wall like I wanted…..may also save my back a bit while operating it too
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6 hours ago, fmmv said:
How public spirited of you
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Halfords is a solid choice for stuff like that. I’ve used the cheaper ones before and they’re normally bigger, thicker and don’t fit a lot of the time.
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1 hour ago, elbekko said:
You can always make some feet:
That is a very good shout.
I raided the skips at work the other day and cleared some space for them to throw more important rubbish away
perks of working in a crane yard.
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It certainly does have the adjustable feet. That was a pre requisite as the floor is 100% not level😂
the reasoning behind the frame is because the base doesnt span the length of the lathe, there is a stop/foot brake bar that is pre bent. I assume that was done by someone jacking it up for the pallet
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Well this was an experience.
The Luton van with a tail lift is defiantly the way to go but still A job! Going to struggle again tomorrow getting it off of the pallet but there are ways.
so, question to those who know….is it a good idea to build a frame to stand the lathe on so a pallet truck can get under it and I can move it in the future or will it just induce vibration?
Excuse the mess…
I will keep this thread going untill it’s up and running. I’ll include wiring in the VFD incase this its useful for other members 👍
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It is what it is. I can’t see myself needing a steady any time soon but when I do they’re about. As everyone says, first thing I’ll be investing is tooling….if I’m feeling fancy maybe a qctp. But I’m actively not looking too hard as I’ll want to buy everything😂
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That’s what I did and some scallywag had cut it down so you can’t use the tail stock to extract….only violence 😂
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All good points. Lathe comes with a dead steady but I think it might be a dead dead steady as I had to pull it out of the tail stock because someone’s cut the tang off of the back of it.
as Ross, I’ve only used the square posts(never a quick change) and just rotated the post.
I’ll get it up and running a decide what else to get. First thing on the list is the bed stop as @vulcan bomber says it’ll help a lot and also save me from doing a stupid
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1 minute ago, fmmv said:
That looks very nice indeed. Result. Probably could do with a clean, but hey that's no problem. I would add a quick change toolpost sometime to the shopping list (lathes are like horses or Land Rovers, buying it is just the start, the tip of the iceberg). A QCTP is good as you don't have to keep setting the heights of tools, you can set them up in a holder and then just swap them in, otherwise it can get a bit of a chore. But what a great start.
The qctp is on the shopping list but need to get it in place and wired up to see if there’s anything I actually need before such luxuries. Also, what a mine field that is…the plunger types are everywhere but everyone is saying the wedge type is better the seems to be one wedge type on sale and has China stamped all over it which I don’t really want to go for as I just spend a lot of money on a (hopefully) decent lathe and then stick a £100 tool post on top 😂 but it is something I’m looking at
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22 hours ago, vulcan bomber said:
Doesn't look like there's much wrong with that at this distance.
Steady rests are machine type specific but there are plenty of M300s about, never used a traveling rest so dont loose any sleep over that.
Double check but I think they are D1-3 cam lock Spindle noses, any accessory intended for such a spindle nose will fit.
Also treat yourself to a bed stop.
Only bed stop I’ve seen for it is a multi position thing that attaches to the Carriage. Very fancy looking but I suspect it needs the stop for it to work…which ofcourse isn’t included
dro would be nice but isn’t essential and can be added at a later date.
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This was also only £200 more than the deal warco had
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Ok well today was odd, ended up checking out the 300 which I diddnt think I would be able to do, also looked at a bantam while I was there but diddnt manage to get over to the 250.
I think this worked out for the best as everything in the m300 worked as it should and looked to be an ex college machine from the motor vehicle department so I doubt it saw much use and the use it did see was fairly light. it also apparently has the hardened ways which is something I was worried about. it doesn’t come with much though, no face plate, 4 jaw or any steadys so I’ll be on the look out
Chatted to the guy, he threw in a few tools for me and we agreed on a price. Fingers crossed I pick it up Saturday
thanks for the help everyone. Feel free to point out anything I’ve missed
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35 minutes ago, muzaz said:
I've owned a warco lathe and mill for 7 years and they serve me well. Granted they are not at the same level or even near a Bridgeport or a Colchester and you wouldn't want them if you were a productive machine shop. But for a hobby machinist I believe they are useful. I have faced the cylinder head and machined the transfercase bush on mine with no issues.
They for sure have their place but I think after all the standard lathe projects you do to get familiar with it I will be asking too much of them.
im hopefully going to look at a Harrison m250 and an m300 a bit later as they’re both local ish for similar money.
normal thing though, the 300 would be a nicer machine and I could potentially do more with it but it comes with nothing
the 250 comes with a new dro and a few tools etc so I could just fire it up and get going…..but obviously limits to smaller parts
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28 minutes ago, sean f said:
My preference would be to go for a Harrison or Colchester, Harrison M250 or M300 would be my choice but nothing wrong with a Colchester Bantam or Student (later square head version). I have a Colchester Triumph 2000 in the garage but that is probable bigger than you want. Most Harrison or Colchesters will be 3 phase as standard so will need some sort of work to work on single phase, I use a digital converter from DrivesDirect which works well but is not a cheep option, plenty of the smaller lathes have just had the 3 phase motor changed out for a similarly sized single phase motor, I have seen reports 3 phase is preferred on a lathes as it is smoother but it would need some one better than me to explain why and I expect for most normal users it would be unnoticeable.
With Warco I have never had one of there lathes but did have one of there mills, it worked OK and did what I wanted at the time but when I changed it out for a KRV mill the difference is very noticeable.
With any used machine it is going to be a few years old so will need a check, just as when buying a used car some will be perfect, others basically scrap, so same advice as when buying a car if you aren't sure what to check take someone with you who does.
I bought my lathe and milling machine from Bowland Trading in Darwen, I have no connection with them other than buying the two machines, but happy to recommend, both have been been excellent, were exactly as described and service was good, including the owner going in on a Sunday so we could collect them. Again as with a used car buying from a dealer is going to cost a bit more but will give you a bit of buyer protection.
Thanks for that, a triumph isn’t too big for the space I have and as I said I would rather have the capacity and not need it than to need it and not have it.
I’ve just messaged a guy about a Harrison m250. Would prefer the 300 as it looks a bit more stout but it’s local. Just waiting to hear back what tooling he’s selling with it, so glad it has received a thumbs up
3 hours ago, vulcan bomber said:Warco machines are Sh!t and thats is all you need to know.
Blunt, harsh and to the point….i like it!😂
This is something I’ve suspected. YouTubers go on about their Weiss machines(who make warcos) being amazing and they can do “most things” that a propper lathe can do but something I’ve learned recently about youtube; if you want to know how bad something is, look for upgrade videos. “Weiss lathe upgrade” for example And god there are a lot of them.
i had not heard of the dsg lathes but i will keep an eye out, thanks
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These are exactly the comments I was hoping to get. The cheap war I was offered again to me as the previous buyer backed out but even if I do spend a little more upfront and buy tooling and accessories slowly as I go I’ll end up with a much better package.
@Stellaghost I would love to know where you found a full size lathe for that money! The cheapest m300 I’ve seen is £1700!
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Time to ask the adults!
The time has come where I can’t really put off buying a lathe anymore. Been looking around a lot the past few weeks and prices are all over the place. I had pretty much decided on either a Colchester or a Harrison but then I stumbled across a deal warco had on their site, I missed out on it but it did get me thinking.
it looks like one way or another a decent machine is going to be around the 2-3k mark(ish). I would be much happier spending less but it is what it is
If I go with the older machines then it’ll have that nice heavy bed, minimal deflection and be built properly with precision and longevity in mind ….the down side to this is it’s an old lathe. There is a difference in whether it was operated by a man who diddnt care or a man that looked after stuff even if it wasn’t his. Ie, it was good a while ago….but now it’s shot
but the smaller warcos are obviously a brand new machine. They have hardened, ground ways, the after support is there(hopefully), parts are plentiful and there is no need for me to get a frequency converter to run a 3 phase motor.
there are obviously trade offs. Smaller machines mean smaller parts and potentially not as fine tolerances. And I would like to have the option of putting a big part in than being limited. But I can’t ignore the updated methods and construction we have that wasn’t as widely used 20-30 years ago when the Colchester’s and Harrison’s were made
Looking at something like a 150 swing with 500 centres(ish) gap bed would be nice, metric thread cutting etc etc
what are your takes on the Colchester/harrison/warco(import) lathes and is there something else I havnt thought about or missed? or do you know of a better alternative?
photos of a few I’ve been looking at
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I have 2 to add….m14 bolt head “fell off” while I was doing a tap test. That was fun. this bolt is one of 8 that hold a winch on. Going by the rust it has been cracked for a while
second one is when a hook block gets jammed up and driver diddnt realise but still hoisted down….
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1 hour ago, steve200TDi said:
I think Dangerous Doug is on the case......
Steve
I feel attacked!😂
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1 minute ago, Stellaghost said:
Your in luck @dangerous doug I have some 25mm plate
you'd best get busy with the fag packet........lol
regards Stephen
I’m going to send you a care package of steel soon to make up for all this😂. I’ll work out the rough size of the horseshoe when I’m next up there
Buying a lathe
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workshop is in the middle of nowhere so a lot of work would need to be done