xychix
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Posts posted by xychix
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After also changing the left front swivel pin and bearring (and figuring out 1 bolt holding axle to stubaxle was broken) the drive is waaay better at 45-45 Mph. Still like a boat but atleast I feel like the captain now..
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18 minutes ago, Gazzar said:
in the 1980's this was standard - metrication took a long time.
What you're saying it's 'as expected' to have a metric hole in my stub axles and imperial holes in my axle housing and the stuff being held together with imperial nuts n bolts.
Thanks, I was expecting an odd repair.
If I ever get to do a full axle rebuild I'll likely drill them all to M10. -
I've been replacing my swivelpin and bearring today.
As one of the bolts holding the stub axle to the axle appear to be in place but snapped I was looking for a (temporary) replacement.
Figured that the thread clearly wasn't metric, however M10 does fit the holes in the stubaxle but won't fit the holes in the axlehousing itself...
may I conclude that there are 2 types of axle housings / stub axles in 109 series III ? imperial and metric, and I've found myself with a car that has mixed parts...?partnumbers: 576521 for imperial and FRC7257 for metric....
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Yeah, kid wanted to sleep on the roof.... So we sleep on the roof.
Nothing fancy indeed but rather effective and comfy with 15 cm of caravan matrass.
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It appeared possible
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I've replaced it on my 109 SIII station, piece of cake. No weird rivets at all as far as I remember.
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As my daugther started complaining I'm always at work at home and during our holidays I'm always working on the landrover (she's got a point there) I decided messing around with the landrover should be shared fun.
Asking what she wanted the response was quick. "I want to sleep on the roof".Brilliant, now how to pull that off.
I've got 2 halves of a heavy cotton army pup tent lying around.
If I'd cut 2 boards to make a floor, place them ~3 inch apart and an extra piece of wood in there.
lock them al together with hinges and only fix the most rear board to the roofrack I'll end up with a 'fold open' floor with up to 3 inch of 'storage' in between.
Unfolded I could nail down the pup-tent and set it properly. remove the poles, fold it in and it would be sort of drivable...
Has anyone before attempted such a stupid idea? Did it accidentally work?
I'll put the pup-tent aside to bring it to France and get you some pictures in 2 weeks. (If I don't forget the thing). -
Solid stop on 1 pedal, still have the feeling I'm compressing both circuits to a certain extend and then the discs (front) do the rest. However braking in reverse is much improved telling me the rear brakes are doing their fair share. I've put an infrared handheld thermometer in the car as that's a great way to measure any temperature issues on a quick stop.
Attached pictures showing the springs (as promised)
First is RearRight second RearLeft.
Current setup (just for future readers not having to read the complete post)
- zeus discs on front
- normal 109 drum brakes on the back
- early non abs defender 90 on front. (however I'd first give it a try with a 109 series III master, in my case I'd need to reflare OR order a more recent Delphi 109 master as the fittings have changed from 2 sized UNF to 12mm/10mm. Newer 109 Delphi masters should have 12mm/10mm as well). a 110 or 109 master with a 50/50 bias should put slightly more pressure to the back compared to the defender 90 60/40 setup.
- replaced all lines and hoses.
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indeed, fusing the stuff is a first thing to do!
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an average multimeter wil also have a 'beep trough' function where it beeps when the 2 ends are connected. This can be used to measure switches / lines and check for broken circuits (would have to disconnect the battery first.)
Also earth problem is still possible as headlights take way more power as the other lights and thereby need a solid ground. -
Hi Snagger and all others concerned.
I'm a quite risk averse person, I won't be driving on the road without braking I really trust.
The binding issue was solved after my defender 90 master cylinder was fit and my pipes and hoses where renewed.
now I have brakes at the front at first pedal and brakes at 4 wheels in 2 strokes of the pedals.
As I know the rear brakes are sh#t (nails, unknown slave cylinders that appear to leak a bit, wrong placed springs, pads that have seen a fair bit of axle oil......, and that's the known issues) I'll be replacing the rear pads / slaves and all springs.
I'll get back here after that for further diagnoses. If the Zeus disc at the front take the same amount of fluid I might have to get my another new master cylinder (109, delphi with 12mm/10mm holes which correspond to the currently placed early def90 master), but more on that later.
All the comments hints and tips for sure helped me understand how the complete braking system fits together, I might not have gotten it all right yet but once this is done I'll be quite familiar with all the quircks and frotless or a 109 braking system thanks to all of you! -
21 hours ago, Red90 said:
Good lord. Do you have the shoes assembled correctly yet?
Hi red90. Have a week off camping with the kids.
And thanks to the write-up and the video I do get how to get the leading and trailing shoes mounted in the right holes and springs on the correct side.
As I'd have to replace contaminated and broken of shoes and leaking cylinders anyhows that's a standing order already.
And I'll make pictures after mounting.
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I was so focussed on my clearly faulty / messed-up rear setup that I missed the point that when there is loads of air in the rear lines the master still should push trough and actuate the front brakes.Did an extensive amount of bleeding and if I now brake with the proper intention to stop I feel the inner part of the master hitting the next and getting on the front brakes. So at least it stops, it stops that good that I can draw black lines on the tarmac.If I do a few short pumps I can even get all 4 wheels blocking on gravel road. (especially driving backwards the difference with rear brakes after 2 short pumps and a proper pump is clear against only 1 proper stroke can be felt clearly. I assume that there’s not enough fluid for rear brakes as the master is a bore 25mm while the rear servo’s on a 109 normally are 33,2 mm bore).
This basically was the result of a chat with Drew from Landypoint.fr whom made me rethink the working of a proper seperated circuit system without faulty valves or other carp in between.
If 110 rear cylinders are same bore as 90 rear cylinders AND they fit a 109 backing plate that should pretty much match the master and allow for proper movement hence braking.
that would basically give me a defender 90 braking characteristic (yes I understand that wouldn't be ideal for a 109 SIII station even though it will be empty in the back most of the time)
I've by now also understood that 110 slave cilinders won't match a 109 backing plate. -
16 minutes ago, Bigj66 said:
My point was that if say for instance you have the cylinder off a SWB drum but the drum off a LWB will the travel on a single pedal stroke of the SWB piston be enough to engage the shoe with the drum? I’m almost certain the cylinder and drum diameter are matched as is the master cylinder so maybe check to see if what you have is all compatible with each other irrespective of the front discs.
Others with more knowledge than me will have better information but it was just to carry out a sanity check of what you have fitted to eliminate a mismatch from the issue you are having.
I've just held on the drum 'half' with a bright lamp next to it and have an assistant slowly press the brake. On half a stroke the shoes seem both evenly seated against the drum and I can't turn the drum by hand anymore.
Will get the other rear wheel of again as well and do same sanity checks there. Also will remove the nails there and reset all springs in proper holes and on the proper side by removing the hubs.
Somehow it might come back to air trapped somewhere in the system.
question: is a brake pipe small enough to push bubble out while bleeding or can bubbles stay in corners on the pipes? (eg. is the fluid thick enough not to pass by an air bubble in the piping itself) (p.s. Using DOT 4)
And thanks all for the support! That really helps a lot to force me to look at things again and again. -
1 hour ago, lo-fi said:
Yes. I suspect you'll find them way out of spec.
The springs must be in the correct holes. You won't stretch the bottom spring over with the shoes in place, you'll have to use the method either me or Gazza suggested.
yep, I took the hub off... spring counts 19 windings, will check with a new part to see if it's the correct spring fitted (no idea if there are multiple options).
Is there a method of measuring the drum diameter in a reliable way? or wil 'just a tapemeasure' be good enough?
Finding the longest crossing with a tapemeasure I get to 27,8cm which converts to 10.94 inch. -
2 hours ago, Bigj66 said:
Without reading back through the entire thread, maybe you’ve already rectified and checked these things so apologies if you have. I’m not sure but I’m sure I’ve heard that the 10”SWB cylinders are smaller than the 11” LWB cylinders so if so, is there a chance the parts have been mixed? At least you know the problem is on the rears for sure 👍
I'm not sure about any part on this vehicle besides stuff I've put on myself.
I've removed the nail as it seemed odd to me as well.
I've already got the spring to the inside of the shoes.
The lower spring is still in the wrong holes as it was impossible. Far to tight to fit on (not a bit tight but clearly impossible)drums all read "max 11.06 inches", are you considering measuring this to determine if the drums are worn over that diameter?
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The promised picture of the 'nails' in my rear brake setup....
maybe a bush trick to make a 10" slave work in a 11" drum..... ? god knows...
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10 hours ago, jordan_meakin said:
With this much trouble, I'd be reverting to original spec. - at least it'd be usable!!
Reason to go for the Zeus kit is because front also required a major overhaul.
And it's likely "just this one thing" thats needs sorting out to give good brakes.
Another option would be to place the pressure reducing dial in de rear pipe. That will likely cause the front brakes to be actuated earlier...
It's hard to believe that a wheel cylinder for a series (sIII partno. 243296 / 243297, bore 31.8mm/1.25 inch) takes that much more fluid compared to a defender rear slave (partno. RTC3168 / RTC3169 bore 22,2 mm).
hmmm given the difference in bore there might be a substantial difference in fluiddisplacement...
Other option to try (as I've now swapped pipes, hoses and master all in one go) is to put back the series master cylinder which should have a bigger displacement.
let them feed the rear first (as it's no the current situation) and then pressurize the front (on which now substantial less fluid is needed). Biggest disadvantage on trying this is that i'd need to cut and reflare the pipes to do so... and potentially again to flip back to the def 90 master...
Crappy process to go trough but I should understand a fair deal on brake systems by the time it works.....
Good thing is they all use the same:
576973 (drums 11")
548169 (upper return spring)
RTC3418G (shoes axle set for rear)
I've gotten a defender 90 master NRC9529 (others in this field are the 110/130 NRC8690 and the 109 NRC6096)
From readings elsewhere I understand that the 90 might have a 60/40 bias to the front while the NRC8690 would have a 50/50. which would mean more fluid to the rear...? -
12 hours ago, Bigj66 said:
Try clamping the rear flexi hose gently and protect the rubber to prevent damage. This will isolate the fronts from the rears and you can see if pedal travel has improved or not, pointing you towards the problem.
Yeah did that already. With the rear axle shutdown there is perfect braking.
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2 minutes ago, Bigj66 said:
Are the front calipers matched to the Zeus discs i.e. solid rather than vented?
yes, a zeus kit as in 1 order, new.
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56 minutes ago, lo-fi said:
Think about it methodically before firing the parts cannon at it....
It boils down to the rear taking more fluid (one way or another) than the master cylinder is designed for.
I think (correct me if I'm wrong), "the master you've got now is designed for a disk front, drum rear?
Are you 100% certain the drums are in spec? It's quite possible to get the adjusters feeling like they're tight, but there being a long way to go until it's actually putting much braking effort in with the pedal, particularly if the drums are worn.
If you've "pumped up" the brakes with a second movement of the pedal, if you let off, then immediately reapply the brakes, what happens? Do you get a firm pedal straight away, or do you have to pump again?
If you bleed until you're confident there's no air in the rear, do you find air in the system if you bleed again after a drive?
if I give it more than 2 seconds I'll have to do another double pump.
I've done the bleeding on my own this time with a hose in a half filles brake bottle and another half bottle to top up the reservoir.
Coulnd't find anyone willing to slam the brakes 92 times with 39Celcius outside (and likely hotter inside).
Also means I closed the nipple ~5 seconds after I let go of the pedal.
@arjan, flexhose is replaced.
Haha if I'm left with the only option do do a rear disc conversion as well I'll also have to slam a thick engine in. -
bit fed up as I don't know what a good next step would be.
Clamping the hose gives a pedal (will retest this tomorrow)
Adjusting the pads against the drums, brake, adjust again. repeat a few times still gives me 2 pumps at least.
So the problem IS in the rear axle. (note that with the zeus discs at front and the defender 90 master it's closer to a defender as to a 109...)
One part tells me to do the following to the rear axle
- replace all bearings
- replace all seals
- replace slave cylinders
- replace pads
- maybe even replace drums.... but as I have 4 drums around from which 3 are looking quit OK that feels wasting money...
- replace all brake springs
this should essentially give me a new rear axle brake setup.....
(uploading a few pictures of the rear left in a minute) -
1 hour ago, lo-fi said:
Here you go:
Apologies for the poor lighting and production quality. Hopefully you get the idea
Looks like a breeze indeed. Although I've pulled mine apart in order to get this topspring BEHIND the shoes hoping it would not pull the knob of the adjustment wheel.
Still have 2 to 3 strokes of the pedal left before I get proper pressure
even after dialing all 4 knobs to full shoes against the drum...
Will make a bigger bleed bottle and press a few liters trough...
Did pull the hub of, just as fast in the end. didn't manage to het the lower sprint in the top 2 holes, put it back in the 1 lower (where it sat). Although that could potentially cause brakes not retracting enough but never lack of pressure as far as I can guess...
... Just flushed ~1 liter (0.5 per side) trough with no difference. Time for a beer as it's 39C here... -
36 minutes ago, Gazzar said:
I assemble off the cylinder and lever on.
Levers are friends.
That also means you take the complete hub off, lever it al on the bench and place it as 1 unit (cylinder + springs + shoes) and therafter put the hub back. Correct?
Is I'd go down that road I'd work with all new parts ass these have likely been on there for a long long time.
even after dialing all 4 knobs to full shoes against the drum...
LANDROVER 2.25 DIESEL
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WRITING LIKE THIS IS SEEN AS RUDE
Writing like this, with 'normal' letters, is the better way