poohbear

Hi Mav, Would have thought it unlikely for two units to fail in the same way in one installation. If it's electrical - is the supply cable upto the job, if it's not large enough the volt drop across it may be causing your problems, likewise if your ground is no good. Otherwise my money is on fuel delivery, or lack of it. Have you checked the pump will deliver enough fuel given the height of the heater above the fuel tank, any blockages/kinks in the lines? It could be that when the engine runs it will pressurise the system enough to give you 2 minutes of burn. In any case - don't give up! The solution is probably very simple and not far away! Dave.

Thanks CW - you are a true gent. Mods: if you need to edit (or delete!) the original post in any way to make the thread easier to follow then please feel free! Thanks for the positive comments - it's fair to say that I couldn' t have planned the project as well without the information/advice from this forum.

OK - so pictures are a good size in the gallery, but when the URL is copied into the thread the size is far too small - any html whizz kids out there that can help point out my school boy error? Also how do I edit the original post? Dave.

Thanks Western - I was struggling with the pictures late last night and to be honest gave up and went to bed. I'll have another go tonight. Dave.

Anybody thought about/tried trace heating the. Washer tubes? Dave.

Hi all, well here goes - my first documented 'install' thread - comments welcome, just be kind. With winter coming and an urban commute of around 5 miles in each direction the truck just does not come anywhere near reaching 'normal' operating temperature. So with an eye on clear windows, better mpg and a comfortable cab I decided to try and install a diesel fired engine pre-heater. I went for a Webasto over an Eberspacher simply because the right one came up at the right time on e-bay. I managed to get an early 90's Webasto Thermotop DW50 - a 5Kw diesel fired coolant heater, with it's own coolant and fuel pumps integrated into the unit. It also came with a full (and intact) wiring harness, all the exhaust and inlet piping, a silencer and a programmable timer the original installtion/operation manual and a free puddle of old diesel to boot. The vehicle is a '91 reg defender 110 CSW 200tdi. The first decision to make was where to mount the heater. The ideal location is on the passenger side near the heater matrix making coolant flow & return hoses easily accessible. However on my vehicle the washer bottle is mounted here. So first job was to get a new under wing bottle for the screenwash: And then add the two washer pumps scavenged from the original bottle: The plus side to mounting the pumps here is that the original wiring does not need modifying in any way - however as the pumps are not self priming you have to make sure that the system cannot drain back and that you don't let the tank run dry - although I'm pretty sure my teeth wont need whitening for a month or two screenwash is an aquired taste. The existing hoses needed a judicial application of heat to make them pliable enough to connect to new fittings. So here we have a new the screenwash system sorted and old bottle removed: Next job is to mount the heater: With the heater position sorted I moved onto plumbing the air inlet and exhaust as once the coolant hoses were plumbed this would be near on impossible: Silencer is mounted to inner wing on 'slightly' modified existing bracket and exhaust runs out under inner wing and drops out just in front of outrigger: Fresh air comes in roughly in line with engine mount also mounted to inner wing under the engine air intake hose. The biggest challenge here was trying to keep the exhaust away from wiring, the clutch hydraulic hose, the rubber inner wing mud guard bit and the engine air intake hose. I also noticed later that the exhaust run was directly under the fuel inlet and return. Being slightly concerned about the possibility of leaking fuel dripping onto the exhaust I fitted a splash cover to the bracket meaning any lost fuel drains harmlessly away - this was fashioned from an old milk container! With these hoses now in place I could move onto plumbing the coolant hoses - run in 16mm as per the original LR hoses. Most people seem to splice into the coolant flow at the heater matrix. I decided to ignore the hose from the heater matrix back to the thermostat housing that runs in a metal pipe along the head and did a direct run instead: I ran the truck for a few days like this to confirm coolant flow was OK - heater is plumbed post heater matrix and pre engine, to heat the engine first and then the heater matrix (The DW50 has a clever trick whereby you splice a relay into the vehicles heater fan and when the coolant reaches a certain temp it switches on the fan to demist/heat the cab - You can plumb the heater in depending on whether you want a hot engine or hot cab first!). Next job was fuel - hampered only by slow delivery (fuel line was an ebay special from Turkey!) and a faulty check valve. Fuel supply was teed off tank feed just before lift pump and return is teed in spill line from back of FIP - I used a check valve to prevent lift pump sucking fuel back from heater when the engine is engine running and an in line filter for good measure. As the DW50 has a flow and return fuel line it was easy to prime the fuel system by 'suction' on the fuel return line (I can confirm that diesel does indeed taste worse than screenwash): Webasto fuel line is 2mm ID - terminated with 5mm fuel hose, the rest of the fuel system is run in 8mm. This just left the wiring to go - As I mentioned earlier the DW50 came with a fully intact loom with just five terminations to make - The main +ve/ground for 12v supply, 2 cables to splice into the vehicle heater fan wiring and an additional ground for the fan relay. the only other wiring was a cable to the timer which was already terminated. Fuse/relay and wire wound resistor for fan where mounted to bulkhead using threaded inserts: I used one of the mounting bolts as the ground terminal, the positive runs directly back to the battery following the same cable route as the starter cables. The fan connections are yet to be terminated but will just run along the top of the bulkhead with other looms. The timer cable goes through the bulkhead grommet following an existing cable route and once the dash was stripped out appears adjacent to the rear wash wipe switch: Yes I know the timer is on the wonk - it was late and I was working by headtorch! This will be moved once I have decided what to do with the centre console - probably a mudstuff jobbie in he summer. The only problem with the electrics was that the lid of the fuse box was too big and fowled the rain gutter on the bulkhead - five minutes with the junior hacksaw and a tube of super-glue solved that one: Before: Ta-da: I have had the heater running today - started up and ran straight away without any issues. Sounds like a bloody harrier trying to take off when it's on full whack! Timer works great and with today's ambient temperature had the coolant up to temp in about 15/20 minutes. The only thing I would change straight away is where the exhaust runs as I do get some fumes in the cab when stationary. This was a very straight forward - I did it over a succession of evenings usually no more than an hour and a half at a go depending on domestic duties/unsettled children. If you are prepared to spend out a bit more on the washer bottle solution event that is plug and play! Over all I'm a very happy bunny Summary of parts used (not in any particular order and I've probably forgotten something) - washer bottle mod: Under wing washer bottle (£26.00) Washer hose (5m) non return valves x 2 tee-piece 32mm rubber lined hose clamps x 2 (should only be 30mm but I guessed wrong!) Webasto Install: Webasto 2mm fuel hose (5m) 16mm ID coolant hose (2m) 8mm fuel hose (2m) 5mm Fuel hose (1m) 13-15mm jubilee clamps (some) 15-17mm jubilee clamps (some) small fuel hose clamps (can't remember exact size but small enough to grip down on 5mm fuel hose) 25mm rubber lined hose clamps 8mm non return (check valve) 5/8mm fuel filter 8mm Tee-piece x2 Various electrical bits - crimps/heatshrink.fuse carrier/cable ties Plus a plentiful supply of hot tea and a dictionary of technical swear words.

Just buy some fuel hose and cut to length yourself - much cheaper option. I used my local diesel specialist though you can also get some off e-blag if you're really lazy. Dave.

Thanks for the reply Mav - I have a Thermotop DW50 which has fuel flow & return lines (return line makes it dead easy to prime the lines as I can just suck the fuel through!). I also think it is duff check valve - thanks for the link, I'll give one of those a go. Dave

Hi all, Well here goes - scenario is this: def110, 200tdi with secondhand webasto installed, coolant lines plumbed and running fine. Plumbed fuel in tonight as follows: Spliced into fuel line from tank just before the lift pump which then goes via check valve and filter to webasto inlet - from webasto outlet back to rear of injection pump where it ie spliced back into the fuel return line. The problem is that the fuel to the webasto keeps draining back - with the engine off the fuel drains back, with the engine running it held for a bit but then drained even quicker. So - first guess is non working check valve - or, is it that the check valve isn't sealing properly when the engine is off as there isn't enough negative pressure to close the valve. Can anybody confirm my suspicions or even suggest a suitable check valve for this situation? Dave.

A defender 200tdi turbo is different to the disco item - so if you have mixed things around the fip may not be 'tuned' to the turbo, don't know if that could be the cause your smoke signals. I'm sure an adult will be along shortly with some hard facts! Dave.

Gone off the lagging idea - as pointed out although it would be fire proof it could act as a wick and keep any spilt fuel in contact with the exhaust. Like the double sleeve idea - unfortunately, as the fuel lines run across the top of the bulkhead, the low point of the run on the n/s is directly over the exhaust at the heater! Best option I can think of is cutting up an old 4 pint milk container and pop rivetting it to the inner wing as a 'run off' before any fuel gets anywhere near hot exhaust parts. Many thanks for all your input. Dave.

No reason to think it will leak other than 'sods law' says it will - just wanted to install it following 'best practice'. Apart from the fact I ferry my family around in the truck, I can't see any insurance company payong out on 'dodgy installation' Dave.

Hi all, Just hoping a grown up can advise - just plumbed in a second hand Webasto diesel heater and so far all is going to plan. However I cannot find a solution that doesn't have the exhaust running directly under the fuel inlet & outlet. My concern is that in the event of a fuel leak it will drip onto the hot exhaust. With this in mind would lagging the exhaust be a workable solution? Anybody able to suggest a way to prevent spilt fuel being set alight by a hot exhaust? Dave.

Recently changed from an '87 90 with disco conversion to a 110 csw factory fit 200tdi - both daily drivers, both lt77, both running the same 235/85 16's on steels. The 90 with the disco conversion had more go about it but seemed to run out of grunt before the 110 does, but the 110 is much more refined with a softer ride. The 110 has all the factory carpet and sound deadening (in the cab and engine bay) and is comfortable noise wise cruising at 70. The 90 had all it's trim stripped and it is difficult to have a conversation at 60 or above. Mods to date are just a cubby box instead of centre seat and exmoor trim 2nd row seats. In the process of fitting webasto and have many more mods planned - intercooler/svo conversion etc. Have a disco lt230 on the bench ready to fit, but not had the time to fit it yet! Dave.

Cool - that was my guess having measured the o/d, just wanted a second opinion! Many thanks.

Hi all - Apologies if this is in the wrong place - vehicle in question is 1991 defender 200tdi - can anybody confirm the internal diameter of the fuel tank supply and return lines? Many thanks, Dave.

At 1Kw it would hammer the battery, and would need a good long journey to get the charge back into it. Not sure I'd like to run it off the starting battery - so into dual batteries and split charging. D.

Heaters seem to be going for anything from £60 upwards on eblag - managed to bag a webasto complete with full wiring loom, controller and exhaust silencer for £190 - Even had original installation & operating manual with it, which I thought was quite a reasonable price! Aswell as engine pre-heating, it's also part of the veg-oil conversion project. Though by the time I manage to complete it svo will be the same cost as pump diesel! Dave

Brill - thanks guys, onward with the webasto installation! Dave.

Hi guys - Quick question, can someone just confirm that the coolant flow in a 200tdi comes out of the rear of the head - through the heater matrix - back along the pipe along the head - and then into the thermostat housing. Or does it flow in the opposite direction? The description in the book of lies just confused me! Thanks, Dave

Hi Crowman - thanks for the pictures. I guess you have some gubbins in there for running vegoil? So the heater also pre-heats the oil? You certainly have a lot of jubilee clips to check . Like the thinking with the remote washer bottle though - I'm planning to go twin batteries in the long run and already have tools/spares under the drivers seat so not a goer for me. D.

Do you mean the PCV hose form the oil separator to the air box? If so mine is just a hose with no other branches/connections? How are you planning to plumb your Webasto? - I was just going to put the heater in line with the cooling circuit, just before the heater matrix - though I did find alternative methods of connecting in the heater on the web, but can't for the life of me find them now! D. OK found it - http://www.eberspacher.com/downloads/technical-documents/hydronicB5+D5ws_technical.pdf Though this refers to Eberspacher units with separate water pump, not really relevant in this instance. Got me thinking though - does the Webasto hinder coolant flow when not switched on?

Got to find time to do it yet! Swmbo has strict guidelines on time allowed for 'pottering'. D.

Thanks for the suggestions Mo and all,, I've just stumped up around £25.00 for a new one and some bits from Craddocks - found the details in this post here from 2006 - http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=9734 Part no. PRC3786 I reckon I can use the existing pumps and some creative plumbing to get it all up and running - Then it's Webasto time! Dave.

Ah - that clears that up! Mo - I forgot to ask, does the td5 tank take two pumps (front screen & rear wash)?