xychix Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, Gazzar said: One cm. Bugger. I may have to re think the use of standard rims. I will try a spacer first, then go down the wolf route, I suppose. Thank you for testing this for me. I appreciate it. G. If you're so persistent on sticking with the standard rims I'll make you some photo's later today. It sure isn't a trick of angle grinding a tiny bit off. You might make it with 2 cm spacers. I'll also measure the 'thread left' on the inside of the rim at the point where it touches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 That would be great. Thanks! I can get spacers cut at whatever it needs, no problem. So I might just get precision on it. Top! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 26, 2018 Author Share Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) I've now bled my brakes with the new defender 90 master. I have pressure to about halfway (I believe this is mainly rear) en then the front gets pressurised and the pedal is hard quite fast then. (without any vacuum). Is it correct that these defender 90 masters fist send a certain amount to the rear drums and only then start to really operate the front? Al my flares (never did this before) seem to hold so far! A spacers would have to be almost as thick as the outer hub (drive flange). Meaning the inner ring of the rim would have to be flat with the 6 bolts holding the drive flange on. I'm afraid you'd loose more looks on that as you would on getting wolf rims... If there is a good workshop day I might be able to make some wooden fillers to the point where I can measure the thickness of the spacer for it not to touch the caliper. At the moment it's 39c in the shade....... Edited July 26, 2018 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 18 hours ago, xychix said: I've now bled my brakes with the new defender 90 master. I have pressure to about halfway (I believe this is mainly rear) en then the front gets pressurised and the pedal is hard quite fast then. (without any vacuum). Is it correct that these defender 90 masters fist send a certain amount to the rear drums and only then start to really operate the front? I doubt it. The front brakes should always apply more braking than the rear, or you'll end up backwards in a ditch on slippery surfaces. There are various types of Defender master. Do you have one of the earlier chunky silver ones for front discs and rear drums, or the later thin black steel ones for discs on all corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Snagger said: I doubt it. The front brakes should always apply more braking than the rear, or you'll end up backwards in a ditch on slippery surfaces. There are various types of Defender master. Do you have one of the earlier chunky silver ones for front discs and rear drums, or the later thin black steel ones for discs on all corners? The earlier one.NRC9529 mated to the series servo without further adjustments. running a pipe straight to the back (from the hole closest to servo) and running a pipe to a T-piece which splits to front wheels. (from the hole away of the servo) Edited July 27, 2018 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 I have several Series Rims here you can try to see if the fit - and several rims I know will clear the ZEUS as I have them (ZEUS) on all 4 corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Leave it for now? When I'm building up axles I'll report how I get on. Over on the slow lightweight thread. Merci. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Arjan said: I have several Series Rims here you can try to see if the fit - and several rims I know will clear the ZEUS as I have them (ZEUS) on all 4 corners. In that case we must have difference series rims . my old rims didn't fit with the calipers at all... I'm happy running wolves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Happy Wolves must be good.. 😀 Hope you can solve the brake challenge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Gazzar said: Leave it for now? When I'm building up axles I'll report how I get on. Over on the slow lightweight thread. Merci. G. for sure! If i end up with non binding brakes that pass the french MOT (CT) I'm just fine. If it's cold, I'll grab the Hilux If it's hot, I'll grab the Hilux If it's far, I'll grab the Hilux If it's heavy, I'll grab the Hilux If it's important, I'll grab the Hilux If I want to relax and enjoy, I'll take the 109 (I think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 got the battery back in and wired my up28 vacuum. Brake pressure now feels nice, can still push it to the bottom on the first round but there's likely some air left as I did a quick bleed on my own. Hopefully I'll have front wheels back on tomorrow so I can lift one rear wheel to check binding after braking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Sounds good - perhaps HerLadyship can help with the brakes ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Arjan said: Sounds good - perhaps HerLadyship can help with the brakes ? haha yeah she can, I've got a proper bleed kit only thing is to close the drain at the right moment (or pump the brakes). We'll get that sorted. Even is the misses is doing her own stuff there's 2 little princesses around here that love to help! Decided to NOT go and do all electrics and also save the master / slave clutch cilinders for later. We need to drive! The rest can wait. Get my 5 year mot next year and then the next wave of improvements. Did do some repairs on the electrical lines and pulled some hard shell hoses over the loom as parts of it where really crappy road side hacks... Edited July 29, 2018 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I know the feeling. Running repairs, and little bits of restoration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 YEAH it drives, it doesn't bind and it brakes HARD in 2 strokes on the pedal. I guess with some more bleeding and adjusting rear brake shoes it should stop in 1 stroke. alterations away from original (regarding brakes): - seperated front and rear circuit (no faulty sensor in between) - NRC9529 in stead of 109 master (no adapter plates) - zeus front disc kit - hella UP28 vacuum pump and tied open the butterfly valve in air intake (pump is from breakers, some volvo.. believe XC70) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Just drove ~5 ish km's and the brakes stayed at a nice 34 Celcius (*about the environment temperature at the moment). Problem is I need 1,5 strokes to get proper brakes, once its proper it is more than adequate due to the front disks doing their job. If I clamp the rear hose I get a solid pedal on ~0.5 stroke as it should be. Did do proper 2 man bleeding on both ends closing the nipple while under pressure. Either there's still some air in the lines or at another point where is't hard to get out. Will check what MOT demands are here, if 2 strokes is allowed I'll get it trough my 5 year MOT first before messing with stuff. Good thing is it doesn't run warm anymore so I can start driving again, which is better for moral and for the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 That normally means the drums are not adjusted properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Red90 said: That normally means the drums are not adjusted properly. I set all blocks against the drum (until I could hear mild grinding) and set them back a little. 2 adjusters per side. I'll set all the bocks agains the drums to see if that takes up the slack. If so I'll set them a tiny tiny tad back and it should be done. Edited August 1, 2018 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Make sure the shoes are on the right way. It is easy to get them mixed up and then the adjusters do not work properly. http://alre.club/Forum/index.php?topic=1253.msg8344#msg8344 The other possible problem is the pads backing off. That can happen with warped discs, or loose hub bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 12 hours ago, Red90 said: Make sure the shoes are on the right way. It is easy to get them mixed up and then the adjusters do not work properly. http://alre.club/Forum/index.php?topic=1253.msg8344#msg8344 The other possible problem is the pads backing off. That can happen with warped discs, or loose hub bearings. They've not be n off over the last years. only thing that MIGHT have happened is that the drums from the front ended up on the back as I treated them all as equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 It sounds like the adjusters are backed off too much. Pump the pedal each time you make an adjustment to reseat the shoe, and set each shoe so that it is just scuffing the drum with the brakes off - any further out results in a soft pedal, and remember that when driving, the drum will be warm and expands. I checked my plumbing and the overall configuration for Defender/Discovery 4x disc brakes is no cross-over; the port nearest the servo is for the rear brakes and the port furthest from the driver for the front brakes. I suspect the mixed system you have is the same, a fat low pressure piston near the servo that has mechanical advantage over a smaller diameter piston for the front brakes. Having it orientated the other way wouldn't work as well and would need a more powerful servo, so seems unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 Think I found it. One of the adusters would turn round and round without setting the pad. After removal of the drum it appears that if the blocks 'lean' outside the aren't touched by the adjusters... Could that be the issue? Is there a way to ensure pads stay in place (or is that what the drum would / should do?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) source: http://alre.club/Forum/index.php?topic=1253.msg8344#msg8344 shows that: 1: the springs run BEHIND the shoes and note on the outside of the shoes? 2: the top holes are used, my top spring is in the wider holes just below those.. I'll try and build it according to this... Does anyone have a more detailed breakdown of the rear brakes? There is a little pin (almost looks like a cut of nail to me) on both sides in between the cylinder and the pads..... Digging more: it appears my front left pad is mounted on the front right... *(and hopefully the other way around or someone really messed up the parts on this one) New lesson learned: these 'tabs' that lean against the wheel thet sets the blocks to the drum can be hit out with a hammer and set back in from the other side (the side with the ring seems a tad shorter and thereby more prone to missing the wheel that sets the block. Fiddling now for a bit and getting the last spring hook in from behind the pad seems a nightmare!! ah and the start was easy because I had the lower spring mounted a hole lower... with the lower spring in the correct holes I can't get even both bottom ends on..... Edited August 3, 2018 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I assemble off the cylinder and lever on. Levers are friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 36 minutes ago, Gazzar said: I assemble off the cylinder and lever on. Levers are friends. That also means you take the complete hub off, lever it al on the bench and place it as 1 unit (cylinder + springs + shoes) and therafter put the hub back. Correct? Is I'd go down that road I'd work with all new parts ass these have likely been on there for a long long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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