Oh dear, what have I done.......

[Rallymantony]

P38a.......... Hence the title.

A little history.  Back in 2002 I bought a 3 year old P38a, up to that point I had owned 8 or 9 RRClassics from very early 2 doors to 2 x LSE's and various ones in-between, most were petrols but 2 of them had the 6.2 GMC conversion which I loved, should never have sold them, ANY of them.......  So anyway, along comes 2002 and a friend of mine said that his boss was selling his 4.6 38a and would I be interested, of course, why wouldn't I be? It was the next great Range Rover and Land Rover/BMW would have surly sorted out all the niggling small issues that the later classics started to have........... How wrong I was.  I can't remember what I paid for the car but I can tell you what it cost me in the 13 months of my ownership, £11000!!!!! Gearbox failure, electrical failure, air suspension failure, more electrical failure.... and eventually, engine failure... I got sucked in to thinking "everything has been replaced, what else can go wrong"?.........  I ended up chopping it in for a new Grand Voyager as the kids were young and we needed something reliable.  As I watched a Chrysler employee drive the 38 off to the lot parking area I actually said "I will NEVER buy another Range Rover ever again", especially a P30 bloody 8A (that wasn't a classic that is).....  ............... Anyway, I've just bought a P38a, apparently, I'm a man of my word!!  Between then and now, I've had a couple of Defenders, a series 2 and a 2a, then back in 2019 I bought a L322 which I have to say I love.  I was actually looking for RRC again to take to Italy with me, I did actually buy one on the dealers description....  I affectionally called it rubbish, because that's what I said when it arrived, normally I would go and look at the car but obviously that wasn't possible with current restrictions, it turned out to be a complete rust bucket (And I mean RUST BUCKET!), oh well, my fault for believing an unknown I guess, I then looked around the car and found that the chassis numbers were missing...... It's now back with the dealer after a lot of back and forth....

Anyway, this 38.

She looks tidy enough, been sat for a few years so the interior has it's own biodiversity but nothing to bad, bodywork is ok, tyres are shot etc etc etc... But someone    has done a 6.2 GMC conversion, which as mentioned before, I love.  I really only bought it for the engine and conversion plate but thinking I may just finish the conversion and give the car a chance.  There is plenty still to do, she starts, drives and stops, it's a manual and it seems to be a fairly decent conversion to be truthful, but I have only had it a few days.  They've fitted a larger rad but this is still way to small, the engine loom is just chucked to one side, the wires to make the GMC run have literally been laid over the motor and not routed, there are blocks of wood between the rear axel and body and someone has welded box section on the from axel which the bump stops rest on.  The EAS lights are all on which I assume is due to the afore mentioned blocks of wood and box section.  Now I've never really worked on a P38 so I'm hoping that you knowledgable people may be able to help me make sense of what's needed.. With this in mind, I have a few questions below if anyone can help:

1. Considering the above, where would you start with the air ride? I removed the relay and jumped the pins, the compressor does work but it's not giving a huge amount of pressure (I've yet to check pressure). I'm thinking of removing the blocks and box section to let it drop, would this rule out/confirm the height sensors are or are not working? Would prefer to not go the coil route.

2. The engine loom is just chucked to the side and floating in the wind, would this have any bearing on any other component?  I should mention that it was originally a disease-el car.

3. There is an orange light on the dash (actually, there are many orange lights on the dash) which looks like a 2 pronged fork sticking up, never seen this before, any ideas?

4. Should I delete my account and stop asking stupid questions?

Thanks so much in advance peoples, there will be many more questions I'm sure.

Stay safe

Tony

[SteveG]

For the air suspension, best place to start is to overhaul your compressor and valve block - only takes a few hours and kits can be ordered here... https://x8r.co.uk/

These cause the majority of issues. Then you can check bags, making sure they are in good order, especially where they fold over at each end. You can also check pipes for condition. Then if you have leaks, you can isolate then them and if necessary swap out bags/pipes. ECU rarely fail and tanks can corrode, so worth a once over.

Edited February 17, 2021 by SteveG

[Northwards]

I'm kind of going through this same process myself - a 2000MY 4.0.

I'll vouch for the x8r kit, it has a good rep, and I found it all pretty easy to work through. I came unstuck with my compressor. Unknown to me it was a recon unit and whoever had done the job had rounded the hex on the grubscrew which lets the piston come out. Hey ho. Reputable recon is only £100.

I've also changed my front air springs. Kept the height senors - they seem OK.

I've also refurbed the reservoir/tank and next on the list is the rear air springs. The system seems to have a bad reputation, but to be fairly straightforward in reality.

Edit - just googled your warning light out of curiosity- I think it's an injector symbol. Something to do with the diesel engine management system. 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Northwards

[Rallymantony]

Thanks so much SteveG and Northwoods, I really appreciate you taking the time.  I'll have a look at the suggested rebuild kit and get one ordered.  Northwards, again, thank you for the warning light info, it does make me wonder what you typed in to google though to get the answer   

Thanks again peeps

[Blanco]

My favourite EAS mod is to put T-pieces and Schrader valves in the four wheel lines and the tank feed just near the valve block, enables you to check for leaks and if necessary drive the vehicle in case of a malfunction elsewhere. 

There is a guy RSW, Richard Storey Wilson who does some free basic software called EAS unlock which will help you reset codes etc. I recommend searching for articles on here and Rangerovers.net and Rangerovers.pub, most issues are well known now and have solutions, everyone does it slightly differently but with a little perseverance you can solve most issues. 

I wonder if your biggest issue will be the 6.2 vs the 4hp22 transmission? might be a little lightweight?

[Rallymantony]

17 hours ago, Blanco said:

My favourite EAS mod is to put T-pieces and Schrader valves in the four wheel lines and the tank feed just near the valve block, enables you to check for leaks and if necessary drive the vehicle in case of a malfunction elsewhere. 

There is a guy RSW, Richard Storey Wilson who does some free basic software called EAS unlock which will help you reset codes etc. I recommend searching for articles on here and Rangerovers.net and Rangerovers.pub, most issues are well known now and have solutions, everyone does it slightly differently but with a little perseverance you can solve most issues. 

I wonder if your biggest issue will be the 6.2 vs the 4hp22 transmission? might be a little lightweight?

Hi Blanco, isn't the 4hp22 an auto transmission?  This is manual and I'm assuming a r380, haven't been underneath yet to confirm which manual it is

 

[Blanco]

My mistake, most are auto. In which case I think it is R380.

[Rallymantony]

I removed the compressor pipe this afternoon and jumped the relay, it feels that it's making pretty good pressure, does anyone know what psi it should be making?  Am I right in thinking that genuine pumps are all Dunlop?  I think my one may be an aftermarket pump, it's model no. E312700012. Thinking I will rebuild the pump and valve block as suggested regardless, makes sense to me.   

What are peoples thoughts on removing the wooden blocks and box section that's been put between the axels and body?  Could this be confusing the ecu?  I'm not sure why someone would put them there to be honest, I'm assuming that the car will still be able to be moved while on it's bump stops?

Also, is there any danger in raising the air bags via a home compressor by counting straight to the compressor pipe?  If I was to have the compressor set at a low pressure and filled the tank slowly???  

Thanks for all your help so peoples, it's very much appreciated.

T 

[David Sparkes]

The stated maximum TANK pressure is 10 bar (150psi). Obviously your compressor must be able to meet that pressure.

The height of the vehicle is NOT set by pressure in the air bags, because the weight on each bag, while the vehicle is static, remains the same, whether the suspension is set to dismount height or extended clearance height.
Rather the vehicle height is set by the volume of air in each bag, that volume is measured by the angle the sensors on the radius arms 'see' as the body is lifted off the axles.

Note that there is no set resistance reading from each sensor that equates to a particular ride height.

While you can install individual inflation valves in each line to each bag, I'd suggest a single valve in the line to the resevoir, fill that to 150psi then use the standard height control to adjust the vehicle. If that isn't effective I suggest strip and refurbish the valve block.
The easiest point to access all these lines is between the compressor / valve control box and the nearby rear corner of the engine bay.

Regarding the hard props you keep asking about, these are an individual approach by 'someone'. We cannot really judge the installation, nor offer specific advice, certainly not without pictures.

Have you got a copy of RAVE?
Have you considered a Diagnostic code reader? Which?

Regards

[Rallymantony]

22 minutes ago, David Sparkes said:

The stated maximum TANK pressure is 10 bar (150psi). Obviously your compressor must be able to meet that pressure.

The height of the vehicle is NOT set by pressure in the air bags, because the weight on each bag, while the vehicle is static, remains the same, whether the suspension is set to dismount height or extended clearance height.
Rather the vehicle height is set by the volume of air in each bag, that volume is measured by the angle the sensors on the radius arms 'see' as the body is lifted off the axles.

Note that there is no set resistance reading from each sensor that equates to a particular ride height.

While you can install individual inflation valves in each line to each bag, I'd suggest a single valve in the line to the resevoir, fill that to 150psi then use the standard height control to adjust the vehicle. If that isn't effective I suggest strip and refurbish the valve block.
The easiest point to access all these lines is between the compressor / valve control box and the nearby rear corner of the engine bay.

Regarding the hard props you keep asking about, these are an individual approach by 'someone'. We cannot really judge the installation, nor offer specific advice, certainly not without pictures.

Have you got a copy of RAVE?
Have you considered a Diagnostic code reader? Which?

Regards

Thank you David, that's brilliant.  I've not got a copy of RAVE, I'll look in to finding one.   I have a Delphi diagnostic reader but not plugged it in the 38 yet, it's been messed around with so much that I almost feel that I need to undo some of the "modifications" first.  I hope to get the car in to my workshop week after next, work can really begin then.  Hopefully I will get some time tomorrow to have a little look.

[Escape]

Congrats with your purchase, and cudos for taking on such a project!

Most have been said above:

- get the free software (EAS unlock) +  cable or a LR diagnostic. I fear the Delphi wont let you access the specific systems on the P38, just the mandatory engine OBD stuff.

- the blocks were probably put there to avoid rubbing with bigger tyres if the EAS fails or under full flex. You should be able to remove them without affecting anything else, but you can use/test the EAS with them in place as well. The EAS unlock software lets you inflate each corner to test. Connect the workshop compressor (set to max) to the top line on the dryer (8mm), that goes to the tank via the NRV in the valveblock. That way you have pressure to play with the standard compressor disconnected. Even with the blocks in place you should be able to see the airbags pressurize.

- if the wiring seems such a mess, I wonder if all the necessary connections to the BECM are there. If the EAS doesn't get an engine running signal, it wont operate. Again the software gives you a way around that.

Filip

[Rallymantony]

23 hours ago, Escape said:

Congrats with your purchase, and cudos for taking on such a project!

Most have been said above:

- get the free software (EAS unlock) +  cable or a LR diagnostic. I fear the Delphi wont let you access the specific systems on the P38, just the mandatory engine OBD stuff.

- the blocks were probably put there to avoid rubbing with bigger tyres if the EAS fails or under full flex. You should be able to remove them without affecting anything else, but you can use/test the EAS with them in place as well. The EAS unlock software lets you inflate each corner to test. Connect the workshop compressor (set to max) to the top line on the dryer (8mm), that goes to the tank via the NRV in the valveblock. That way you have pressure to play with the standard compressor disconnected. Even with the blocks in place you should be able to see the airbags pressurize.

- if the wiring seems such a mess, I wonder if all the necessary connections to the BECM are there. If the EAS doesn't get an engine running signal, it wont operate. Again the software gives you a way around that.

Filip

Hi Filip

Thanks so much for the advice, it is very much appreciated.  I'll google it, but where is best to get the software and cable from?  As said, I'll do a quick search now and see what I can find.  

Thanks again

[Escape]

You're welcome to download the software from my site: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mpu50npquhs3dql/EASunlock.exe?dl=0

The cable you'll have to google, there's Storey Wilson in the US, not sure about UK suppliers other than Ebay. You can also build the cable yourself, even if you don't have an OBD plug as you can just push the wires into the connector as per the table below. The DB9 is the old serial computer plug, for most modern stuff you'll need a serial to OBD adapter as well.

http://www.rswsolutions.com/images/stories/myimages/easdata/eas_ecu_obdii.jpg

[Rallymantony]

On 2/19/2021 at 9:16 PM, Escape said:

You're welcome to download the software from my site: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mpu50npquhs3dql/EASunlock.exe?dl=0

The cable you'll have to google, there's Storey Wilson in the US, not sure about UK suppliers other than Ebay. You can also build the cable yourself, even if you don't have an OBD plug as you can just push the wires into the connector as per the table below. The DB9 is the old serial computer plug, for most modern stuff you'll need a serial to OBD adapter as well.

http://www.rswsolutions.com/images/stories/myimages/easdata/eas_ecu_obdii.jpg

Thant's very kind of you Filip, thank you. I'm not great with tech stuff so may need my younglings to help.....  I'll let you know how I get on.  Thanks again