Early Defender door lock barrels

[Snagger]

As far as I can tell, Defenders up to 2002 (or maybe 2007) had different keys for the back door and front doors - it appears the rear door used a short key while the front doors used long keys (presumably the ignition key).  Can anyone confirm that for me?

I have that configuration on my 109, which has fairly early Defender “push-button” front doors (with the older 16mm diameter lock barrels) and the aluminium skinned rear door.  To make matters worse, the ignition has a third key.  I want to consolidate this to just one key.

There seem to be be two methods.:

One would involve converter the front doors with a kit like the one from Masai that has the newer front door handles and 20mm lock barrels, a third lock barrel for the back door and a new ignition/steering lock assembly with matching keys, ( https://www.masai4x4.com/Ignition-Barrel-and-Handle-Conversion-Kit-One-Key-Operation-for-Defender-90-110-p245911236 )but this would require the replacement of the rear look latch assembly with the late version to take the 20mm barrel and I don’t know what is involved in fitting that type of latch assembly to the earlier door (might bolt straight in, but might have the lock barrel in another position causing problems with the existing hole in the door skin and might have alignment issues with the striker.  Plus, an aftermarket latch costs another £75 or so;

The other appears a very simple kit like this one from SP ( https://www.sp-4x4.com/QRF100880_DEFENDER_IGNITION_LOCK_SET_p/lr041320-4.htm )with just a set of barrels that are said to fit the existing handles and rear lock and an ignition/steering lock unit.  However, I was under the impression that the rear lock barrel was much shorter than the ign and front handle barrels, so I don’t understand how this is possible (the kit description states it includes a fourth identical barrel for the fuel cap).

Has anyone tried one of those kits or can anyone put my mind at ease?

[rusty_wingnut]

27 minutes ago, Snagger said:

As far as I can tell, Defenders up to 2002 (or maybe 2007) had different keys for the back door and front doors - it appears the rear door used a short key while the front doors used long keys (presumably the ignition key).  Can anyone confirm that for me?

 

I know of a very original 1998 300tdi 110 that has the same small key for all doors. Big plastic key is for ignition.

Edited June 12, 2023 by rusty_wingnut

[Snagger]

One key for all doors and another for ignition is an improvement on what I have now, but not much.

Did late pre-Defender 90/110 have push button doors, or were they introduced on the Defender version?  My front doors definitely take a long key with double edge, very similar in shape and size to my (original) SIII ignition key and those in the kits above, while the fairly old Defender back door has a short key which I recall (perhaps unreliably) having a single ridged side and a straight back, a bit like a Yale building door key.

[muddy]

I think with the steel pressed doors (2005?) came the larger barrels for matching ign and door key however all the defenders I've had used an ign key with a fairly long slim 'nose' this whilst not correct would open all the doors.

 

 

[Junglie]

MIne (85) has 3 keys - short one, looks like a fat d or b depending on how you hold it for doors. Longer one with a symmetrical head for the rear door. Has a slightly longer blade I think. Then the ignition key is different again and has a plastic head.

[hurbie]

21 minutes ago, Junglie said:

MIne (85) has 3 keys - short one, looks like a fat d or b depending on how you hold it for doors. Longer one with a symmetrical head for the rear door. Has a slightly longer blade I think. Then the ignition key is different again and has a plastic head.

same as on my 1987 3 door 110 , lift-up handle doors .

back door key is the same as the bonnet lock on mine.

[Junglie]

6 minutes ago, hurbie said:

same as on my 1987 3 door 110 , lift-up handle doors .

back door key is the same as the bonnet lock on mine.

Yep, lift handle door but no bonnet lock on mine

 

[Retroanaconda]

2002 was the year the larger barrels came in for the doors, meaning you could finally have one key for both them and the ignition (you still need a separate one for the fuel cap but that rarely needs locking).

The later 2002-on rear door locks which accept the larger barrels will fit earlier doors, they are dimensionally the same as the older types. You may need to enlarge the hole in the door skin for the escutcheon. You can also fit the central locking variety if desired, or just go for the standard one.

The earlier rear door locks take the same barrels as the earlier front door handles. The later type are much better, though not really much more secure. 

[Snagger]

Thanks for the replies.

Sounds like mine are pretty typical, then, even though the ign switch, front doors and rear door came from three different vehicles anyway.  To avoid confusion, my keys are shown below - the plastic clad one is the SIII ignition switch, the similar size one from the early push-button front doors and the small one from what I suspect was a 200Tdi as the door was Arles blue.

I added a screenshot of the kit that claims to be a direct fit to the existing locks.  I can see how the ign and front door barrels could match, given the similar size and shape original keys, but I’m not convinced the same barrel will fit the old rear door.  It’d certainly be a much cheaper option than fitting the later type with new handles and new rear latch assembly.

[Snagger]

I’m always wary of aftermarket kits that claim to cure old problems, but with my mixed sources of doors and ign switch, it adds uncertainty.  Does anyone have an opinion, or better still, knowledge on whether that kit will fit my locks?  I think there are only two types of push-button front door handle and two types of rear door latch assembly, pre and post 2002 for both, so it seems to me they should fit, but given the difference in existing key types, I’m far from convinced.

[Junglie]

OK, how much is the kit? If it's not stupid money then I'll get it and give it a try - my locks are FUBAR anyway so I need to do something.

In fact if yiou send me a link then I'll contact them to discuss.

[Snagger]

Link is as the second link in the first post.  They were £65, plus VAT I think.  It includes the steering lock and ign switch, so not too bad if quality is OK.  But if the parts are all made of Britpart blue cheese…. https://www.sp4x4.com/QRF100880_DEFENDER_IGNITION_LOCK_SET_p/lr041320-4.htm
 

 

[Junglie]

Their very helpful customer service team say they won't fit mine - they fit series type doors or pushbutton doors but not the interim type I have. Sorry.

[Snagger]

14 hours ago, Junglie said:

Their very helpful customer service team say they won't fit mine - they fit series type doors or pushbutton doors but not the interim type I have. Sorry.

The cross to bear for having the most desirable door type!  I’d much prefer those to the lush-button type.