ThreePointFive Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 I haven't had the time to put any thought into it, so I'll put these here until I have the energy. The length of cable run makes continuity testing difficult so this is remembering work from two years ago, think I'll need to pull some fuses to make sure it's all as-labelled. I'll update when I've had more time to think it through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 2 hours ago, Peaklander said: The OFF ON ON switch does have two live terminals in the middle position and at one end. In the diagram it shows one position as normally closed (solid lines 2-3 and 5-6) and the other two as dashed. So you can work it out. Also the tip mentioned already, that you can jumper from the switched position at pin 4, means that the common contact at pin 2 can be driven by switch position, rather than a direct feed from something else. Also if you rotate the illuminated front plate, I think you often you lose the green dash illumination as the led, is no longer behind the diagram part. I might be wrong about that as it's been a long time since I constructed my switch panel. Thanks for explaining that first bit - it helps. As for the second, yes, you have to swap the internal bulbs over while retaining their original connections - I did that when I installed mine as they only seemed to be sold in US configurations and I wasn’t satisfied with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 9 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said: I haven't had the time to put any thought into it, so I'll put these here until I have the energy. The length of cable run makes continuity testing difficult so this is remembering work from two years ago, think I'll need to pull some fuses to make sure it's all as-labelled. I'll update when I've had more time to think it through. I think you need the switch outputs to the relay and thermostatic switch on different levels, but that is otherwise very similar to what I’d like to do (I’ll just wire the high temp thermostatic switch output to a dash warning rather than second fan). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 The LEDs (or bulbs on the older switches) are symmetrical in the switch, so it doesn't matter how you fit the cover. I have found out that there are 2 types (at least) with different wiring of the LEDs. One has a 2 fully independent LEDs, the other uses a common ground. Which is a pain if you need to switch ground as you can't drive just one LED (not easily anyway). I spent some time rewiring the internals of some switches to get everything to work the way I wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 On 5/2/2024 at 2:18 PM, Snagger said: At the moment, I have a thermostatic switch and a simple off/on switch in parallel to the fan relay. The thermostatic switch’s lower temperature outlet terminal is the one wired in. I intend to fit a dash warning bulb to the higher output. Could you do the same? It doesn’t seem important to have the fan powered unless the temperature is getting problematic, so a simple warning should suffice. I do intend to move the dash control from that off/on switch to a Carling switch on the dash (bit of a remodel to come), hence my earlier question. I plan on having a similar off/auto/on choice like you. What I would like to do is have the auto position in the uppermost position, on in the mid position and off at the bottom. That way, the natural position for the switch would be up, in auto, and the most unnatural position to leave the switch when exiting the car would be fully down, in “off”. The problem with the switch with basic wiring is that the middle position has one live output and the second on has two, which is not how I’d like it - I’d rather have two in the middle so the relay feed and its trigger terminals are both live in that position, and have the top switch position have only the relay feed live (so the relay trigger is only from the thermostatic switch), and the relay isolated in the bottom position. I don’t know if that is going to be possible. The switch lends itself to having the automatic position in the middle. Maybe instead of using the switch and thermostatic switch in the positive feed to the relay, using it in the earth of the relay would be better, one wire running directly from relay earth terminal to the Carling switch and the other via the thermostatic switch to the other gang of the Carling switch, earthing to the dash via the terminal usually used as a live feed? What you describe can be done with this type of switch. And it does feel like a logical layout. - power to 5 and link from 2 to 4 - feed to the thermostatic switch from 1, i.e. auto in position 1 - parallel trigger to relay from 3, i.e. on in position 2 - all off in position 3 I would provide a permanent (or ignition switched) fused live directly to the relay, not through the switch. And an ignition switched live to the switch so you can't accidentally leave the fan running with the engine off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 On 5/1/2024 at 10:36 PM, Peaklander said: In position A you want alarm on and fans off. In B you want alarm off and fans on thermostat and in position C, alarm off and fans manually on. So maybe this would work… Pin 5: power in link pins 4 to 2 Pin 1: out to alarm / switch in position A Pin 3: fans on thermostat / switch in position B (middle) Pin 6: fans on manual (but thermostat output is on also) / switch in position C …can you handle position C with the fan thermostat output on together with the manual output? If that’s good then it’s ‘just’ the two leds to sort. This is really pretty simple when you start thinking it through. The links will be fiddly but not complicated. I have just realised the mud directions I followed below are slightly different to yours - Pin 6 for example. I'll see what happens. New setup looks like this: Switch positions: Top = buzzer Middle = thermostat Bottom = thermostat and override (only one fan is on override so this makes both come on, assuming the car is hot enough for the thermostat side) I want the switch to sit in the middle position most of the time, hence middle is thermostat. I'll give it a bash tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 The links are just looped from one contact to the other. Doesn’t need to be short, just neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 On 5/3/2024 at 11:13 PM, ThreePointFive said: This is really pretty simple when you start thinking it through. The links will be fiddly but not complicated. I have just realised the mud directions I followed below are slightly different to yours - Pin 6 for example. I'll see what happens. New setup looks like this: Switch positions: Top = buzzer Middle = thermostat Bottom = thermostat and override (only one fan is on override so this makes both come on, assuming the car is hot enough for the thermostat side) I want the switch to sit in the middle position most of the time, hence middle is thermostat. I'll give it a bash tomorrow. I don't think your thermostat switch will be powered in the bottom position, so only the fan on override will come on. There will be a connection between 5 and 4 and then to 2 and 1, but not to 3. If you want the thermostat switch powered in both positions, you need to feed it from 4 instead of 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted May 6 Author Share Posted May 6 You might be right, I have a jumper on the power-in feed already so I can remedy that relatively easily if it doesn't work. Hopefully I'll get a go at it tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 Well it works, but Escape, you are definitely correct that it operates as an 'or', not an 'and'. I will need to rectify that. I've also selected a buzzer that can be heard from outside the car. I think I can weaponise this. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Please will you show the final circuit/connections that you have made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 Certainly, it's another one I'll need to sit and stare at for an hour to work out. The diagram I did before isn't correct anyway as I didn't bother with the blue link between 1 and 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 On 5/6/2024 at 1:58 PM, Escape said: I don't think your thermostat switch will be powered in the bottom position, so only the fan on override will come on. There will be a connection between 5 and 4 and then to 2 and 1, but not to 3. If you want the thermostat switch powered in both positions, you need to feed it from 4 instead of 3. Does it still need the link from 2-4 as well or ditch that and just have the thermostat feed on 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 It still needs the link from 4 to 2, to get power from 5 to 1 for the manual operation in the bottom position. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 On 5/7/2024 at 8:56 PM, ThreePointFive said: I've also selected a buzzer that can be heard from outside the car. I think I can weaponise this. I need a nice little warning device for my dash and recently bought this for £1.54 delivered. I assumed for that price it would be tiny and not too loud. Looks ok.. But it’s neither of those. 😳 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Stick a piece of sellotape over the front to quieten it. Putting a buzzer on the oil light circuit is one of my favourite mods. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 It doesn’t make it sensibly smaller as well though! Mine’s for my egt gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 Our buzzer experience is the same Peaklander, I thought mine would be the size of a couple of stacked £1 coins...I have now taped over mine, as much as I liked the fact it could be a makeshift alarm/torture by always parking up with the fans off. It's now a much more tolerable level, but unignorable which is the main thing. I have re-wired it, but I don't know if the thermostat works as expected until I run it. I'm using the car tomorrow so I'll be able to report back then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 I said I would update this when I'd finalised the switch wiring, which seems only right after all the help I've had. This is the result, you may notice the thermostat and manual wires have swapped. Once it all worked, I found out these were backwards after all and the manual override was operating on the middle position. Hopefully the above makes sense and is useful to someone. The next improvement I think I can make is for both fans to come on with the thermostat activation. I know I need a jumper between the relays, I'll just need to apply some further thought to where so it doesn't back feed under manual operation. I'll update that in my build thread though as it's going beyond the intent of this one. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 I think with that configuration you have: Position are from right to left in the diagram @Escape provided A - Alarm B - Fan manual control on C- Fan manual on and thermostatic control on Is that what you have and want? Or do you mean that you swapped 1 & 2 around after wiring according to this diagram? That then would look right to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 Wired as per the diagram I posted, it's: A: Alarm B: Thermostat C : thermostat + manual Either I've misidentified what wire controls what or there's something else at play. Without disturbing the wiring on the thermostat I can't see how I've got it wrong but that is the simplest explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Going from your diagram, I get the same result as @Peaklander. I think you need to swap 1 (thermostat) and 2 (manual) for it to work like you want it. Probably just a case of getting the wires mixed up. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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