2"Lower Shock Turrets ( Homemade )

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

You might, and you might not...........

The reason will be everything to do with the dimensions of the shocks.

Think of it this way.

Place 2 axle stands under the chassis, then remove both springs and one wheel, then jack up one ide until it truly is on the bump stops, and the other side has dropped as far as it can....many shockers will hit themselves internally before you have managed to hit the bump stop, if this was the case off road then the shocker would most probably split....

The more you increase the shocker length the more risk of this happening, hence why sometimes you have to tweak to mounts to allow the shocker full upward compression without imploding on itself.

When you go longer you also have to keep an eye on A Frame ball joint brake lines propshaft U/Js and sliders and bodywork, .....as axle move in an arc ......hence why I am now cutting out wheel boxes !...allowing the tyres to come into the rear tub.

Bent radius arms help even more, and much of my ideas were tested by the above method, add lift kits, longer springs and other tweasks - such as mine having NO lift but samller bump stops !...and the fun increases....

I am aiming for articulation, soft springs and very long shocks, coupled with a load of suspension mods and tweaks to help the axle flex, long shocks on there own will not do it, and for real flex the springs have to be a soft as you can get them without them being too soft and bottoming out to the bump stops when you drive over an ant....oh and road sensible to....

But, in simple terms yes you MAYBE could.....

HTH

Nige

[tuko]

After reading your last post Nige, I thought I had a picture to show your very point.

Here is my hybrid "temporarily stopped" and the rear axle articulated.

As you can see, the right tire is in the air and the left bump stop is NOT in contact with the axle. The spring doesn't look fully compressed, so what's stopping it? My guess, it's the shocks...... exactly what your talking about.

Todd.

[darthdicky]

As you can see, the right tire is in the air and the left bump stop is NOT in contact with the axle. The spring doesn't look fully compressed, so what's stopping it? My guess, it's the shocks...... exactly what your talking about.

Todd.

I'd say that there probably isn't enough weight above that corner to compress the spring enough to get it to reach the bumpstop. Most of the weight of the vehicle is compressing the front springs, not the rears. I've got pictures of mine in similar situations on the old springs and it did the same thing. With softer springs it reaches the bumpstops more often.

Best way to find out is to support the body, take the spring out and jack the axle up, then you'll see what stops it's upward travel first. On standard shocks and mounts, I doubt it would be the shock limiting it.

Richard

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Richard,

Don't be 100% sure of that.

In the photo there are a ferw things that could stop the axle moving.

1. Bushes, ........watch a RR or 90 with knackered bushing off road,..... they flex so much better, .....the radius here arm bush looks ok.... , but the axle has flexed quite a lot, .....bushes can hold it back, ....but with a good jolt this can then allow it to touch the bump stop,.

2. Shocks, bear in mind that the axle when it flexs goes up and down .....BUT also moves in an arc, ....as such it can be higher than the bump stop at the wheel end where the shocjker is located...., and the shock bottomed out,..... and the bump stop not reached,............. whereas if you went say squarely over a sleeping policeman / bump really really hard the axle would just go "Up" and hit bump stops together without shocks bottoming.

3. Tyres can also if bigger hit the top wheel box and stop any more upward flex.

the only way to know for sure is to play the "springs off on shocks off on and twin trolley jack dance", .....and see, .....often you will find that bushes can play a big part ......and why I have made some changes to bushes washer suspension bits etc to allow it all to flex more.

Tony Cordell, and trev LR90 and others have a set (lucky bu%%ers) of the slotted bushes for the front arms which do this very thing, ........I have had to play about with my own ideas to get this, ......and as yet its all back together and ok on the road, .....still need to try off road, .....but I too have the wheel box prob, .........so am now in 'prototype stage 1' for these to be modded :

This is about 3.5 inches up on std box....and is the next tweak, ........these are proto type boxes made up and tigged (badly) together just to give me somethink to work from, the finished ones may be very different once I have played the "springs off on shocks off on and twin trolley jack dance" AGAIN

shame the hydraulic winch tank is located on this on the other side tad more work when I have it sorted....

Nige

[tuko]

There's a guy over on the Swedish Land Rover Club's forum, that has told another guy to drillout his bushing, in order to make them softer and provide more flex. He claims that you can gain in the range of 2", by doing this.....hmm... is this smart to do?

I asked if he has done it to his own vehicle, so we'll see tomorrow, if I get a reply.

Oh, Nige,

I have no contact with the 265's.....Not yet, gotta get some flex first

Todd.

[Michele]

This thread is evolving

and me following with mucho interest

[/img]

Where's the limit beyond which the axles starts "walking" under

(as in those exxxxxxxtreme kits...)?

And here's some surgery to house long coilovers in a Disco,

Nige you may like it and eventually decide to sell your 90

and start again

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

M,

Hiya,

I am NOT a fan of the extreme kits at all, they are impressive from a view point a view, but not for me.

I prefer to have a balanced 90, by this I mean.

1.) the 90 sits as level as I can get it when axle flexes, this is done via weight vs spring poundages.

2.) By going softer springs to keep the same ride height I also go longer on springs, this way I keep std ride height but now with long springs, this means little or virtually none of the "Disclocation" situation, so I keep full 90 weight through the springs to the axle.

3.) Balanced, in that there is little point in having massive movement at the rear and a small extra over std on the front, I am trying to have a balanced equal amount of travel front and rear, without going 3 link (which is best) and it is hard work !

4.) No Lift, I am doing all this with NO LIFT AT ALL OVER STD, this way the COG caster and Prop U/Js are virtaully unaffected until max travel reached

Nige

[Michele]

Hold your (300?) horses!

I agree with you 100%

(and I canNOT stand such kits etc...),

just asking as without going bankrupted

there are longer dampers which allow massive axle movement...

...and you really see the axle walking under...

Which is no good I think?

2.) By going softer springs to keep the same ride height I also go longer on springs

That's what I thought while fitting RR springs but they stand proudly high

so I presume HD they really are for my 90 too!

Pic shows long coilovers in the rear,just joking about internal surgery

[tuko]

"I have made some changes to bushes washer suspension bits etc"

Nige,

So, what did you do? Just by reading that, I'm thinking that maybe you put slight bends in the washers, closest to the axles. Did you do any work on the bushings ? ( Drilled them out? )

I wonder if a guy did drillout the bushings, how would the vehicle drive afterwards?

A guy over on the SLRK page, has given me instructions, how to drillout the bushing, apparently, he has done it. But he warns, that they do deteriorate quickly. Today, he has scrapped them, for the slotted bushing, from Astralia.

Todd.

[will_warne]

M, sorry to go off topic but have you got any more photos of the suspension on that Disco? TIA

Nige, 3 link's good but 4's better. I'm just trying to see if I can fit 4 links arround my front end.

[darthdicky]

Some details on here and here on Pirate Will

Richard

[andyb]

There's a guy over on the Swedish Land Rover Club's forum, that has told another guy to drillout his bushing, in order to make them softer and provide more flex.

I beleve that this is how the slotted bushes started out on OuterLimits. I think it was MogRover (? ) who experimented with drilling the bushes before making slotted ones.

[Michele]

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Hi ya,

Drilling holes in bushes will allow more flex, ....but they will delinish and split .....and last not too long at all.

Re the mods to the suspension washers bushes mounts etc, wait till I have tried it before you copy !.....after all, I'm on Mk2 mounts front, and Mk3 rears !.......earlier sets in the bin

Big prob with the rear axle is the A Frame Ball joint, which has about 17.5 degrees travel before reaching limits, lift kits make this even less as it affect the angle the joint often sits at, if you go past this point the plate of the top of the casing buckles, or can even be torn off.

I have looked at a few options here, and am thinking them through, as I will soon reach this limit (if not all ready), I know Simon at X-Eng has plans, ...............so I may just wait n see and get wallet out he does some nice stuff !...simon if you're reading this could you pull yer finger out mate B)

Front is often limited by flex on jockey arms, bushes and panhard rod etc,

much easier to get the rear to move, but the A Frame joint is the prob,

front prob is getting it to move properly in the 1st place, hence why 3 link is often a route taken (and will not get to this level I KNOW).....

With much of what I am doing some is proven, some copied, some borrowed, some is 'off the wall', and some is ideas I am just trying out, ..............and then it sort of keeps progressing and evolving, ..............but so far I think I have gained quite a load of movement,............... and I know there is more to come, ................and it will still have road manners !...which with 300 bhp I do need !

Good thread this, ..............hope it continues, and it might make an interesting "Coil Suspension - Mods Ideas and Info" for tech section ????

N

Nige

[andyb]

Drilling holes in bushes will allow more flex, ....but they will delinish and split .....and last not too long at all.

Which is what happened initially, but I think they did something different for the final version. IIRC TonyC had some/still has some fitted to his 90.

front prob is getting it to move properly in the 1st place, hence why 3 link is often a route taken (and will not get to this level I KNOW).....

What do you mean? You are not going 3-link or you think/reckon/know that you will get more movement (Oooer) without a 3-link but using you HFH-link front suspension mods

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Sorry what I mean is I think it highly unlikely that I will get anywhere near the flex and travel that a 3 link does, and I accept that (for the mo ). the 90 / RR front end does not really lend itself to massive movemt.............., 3 (and 4) link fronts do / does.

As such I have accepted this, but the trade off is that 300 BHP and sudden turns on the steering wheel may require only the normal change of underpants, where as with a 3 link this could be worse

I think that whilst I cannot get close to 3 link flex movement and articulation I can get a Massive increase over standard, and thats what I'm up to....

If I can't then 3 link, and the shares in M&S via sales of Undies could take a huge leap

Nige