BogMonster Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Just changed the front springs on the 90 back to the originals to see if that cures the prop vibration, but to raise it a little over what it was I have fitted the ANR2938 rubber isolator rings (usually found on the top of Discovery rear springs) on the top and bottom of each spring - this raises it about 18mm over std. (9mm per isolator) and it now looks about like it should - very slightly lower at the front than the back. But one thing that occurred to me when fitting them is that the "lip" that seats the spring on the isolator is much smaller than the one on the spring plate - so it is possible that on full articulation, the spring may unseat at the bottom more easily. It isn't a problem where the isolators are used in the original place (top of a rear spring) because the spring mounting bracket retains the spring, and the "lip" is just to keep the isolator in place. Is anybody using these things on the bottom at the front, and have you had any problem? I have put them on anyway, and will see what happens, just interested in any feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Just changed the front springs on the 90 back to the originals to see if that cures the prop vibration, but to raise it a little over what it was I have fitted the ANR2938 rubber isolator rings (usually found on the top of Discovery rear springs) on the top and bottom of each spring - this raises it about 18mm over std. (9mm per isolator) and it now looks about like it should - very slightly lower at the front than the back.But one thing that occurred to me when fitting them is that the "lip" that seats the spring on the isolator is much smaller than the one on the spring plate - so it is possible that on full articulation, the spring may unseat at the bottom more easily. It isn't a problem where the isolators are used in the original place (top of a rear spring) because the spring mounting bracket retains the spring, and the "lip" is just to keep the isolator in place. Is anybody using these things on the bottom at the front, and have you had any problem? I have put them on anyway, and will see what happens, just interested in any feedback. Sorry Steve but I can't recall what shocks you are running. Do your springs come loose on full droop? If not then its propably not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 22, 2005 Author Share Posted October 22, 2005 Monroe Adventurer gas ones fitted the other week I don't think they dislocate on full droop but I haven't really looked I went away this afternoon for a crash around on some rough ground and got a couple of "twangs" but when I looked there was nothing amiss ... so it might be OK. The spring can't fall off anyway due to the shock going through the middle of it, I am just a bit worried the isolator on the bottom might pop out and end up mashed half way out between the spring & plate. Still got a bit of a vibration from somewhere though even now its lost an inch at the front The one good thing is the ratchet ring spanner I bought - I wish I'd discovered those years ago!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Monroe Adventurer gas ones fitted the other weekI don't think they dislocate on full droop but I haven't really looked I went away this afternoon for a crash around on some rough ground and got a couple of "twangs" but when I looked there was nothing amiss ... so it might be OK. The spring can't fall off anyway due to the shock going through the middle of it, I am just a bit worried the isolator on the bottom might pop out and end up mashed half way out between the spring & plate. Still got a bit of a vibration from somewhere though even now its lost an inch at the front The one good thing is the ratchet ring spanner I bought - I wish I'd discovered those years ago!!! Just stick the high lift under the front and lift till the wheels come off the ground. You'll soon see if the springs (and isolators) are at risk of coming adrift. Might also be interresting to check if the prop binds when its at full droop too (though you may need better support than a high lift. If you take both the isolators out (just to reduce the height) does that improve the vibration? Also what about raising the back slightly which would have the effect of improving the driveline angles at the front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Yes I'm using themon the bottom and no probs when the spring dislocates- BUT I'm cheating as I have dislocation cones on the bottom which hold the isolators on. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 22, 2005 Author Share Posted October 22, 2005 One problem I did find - doesn't bother me but would do if I fitted much longer shocks - is that the draglink hits the steering guard when you drop the left side right down: Is this why many of the 3 link folks appear not to use steering guards? I hadn't thought of it before, I just happened to notice while I had it all to bits. The vibration is much less than before - if I hadn't been looking I might not have particularly noticed it - and I ain't taking it all off again to check if removing the isolators gets rid of all vibration besides which it would then be too low again and that would be no good either. I think I'll leave it as it is, though when I crossaxled it this afternoon I found that the tyres (these are only 265/75R16s) are rubbing on the top of the wheelarch boxes at the back so now I need something to lift the back end up. Bah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Yep, found that out with the suspension mods, have machined right back to 1/2 inch forward of the fold to allow it to clear. I used the anti rattlers on the hybrid as you described, other than shock length no probs Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgie Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 How about a pair fo these front spring retainers next time you get an order from Paddock's? That would keep the springs where you want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 23, 2005 Author Share Posted October 23, 2005 Might look into that Budgie, but for the time being I'll see if I get a problem with things as they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Hi Steve I have come across that tip before regarding the use of the rubber isolators when checking out Expedition Exchange site in the States. I was thinking of installing them on the front and back, top and bottom of my Defender 90 to act as little extra dampening. My 90 is very heavy when fully loaded so I have an Old Man Emu 2" + lift with very heavy rated springs and 33x12.50x12 MT's. The reason I ask about the isolators is that I rarely have the full kit on my Landy that I would carry when on expedtion and so the ride can be jarring. I was thinking about adding the isolators to very slight soften the ride. The other benefit I was thinking of would be a very slight increase of clearance of the wheel/tyres when I put my snow chains on. My questions are really, how much difference do they make to the ride quality due to reduced dampening? And, if I did go down this route of adding a total of 18mm to my suspension setup front and back....... ........would I suffer/notice a detrimental effect to my caster angles which to date I haven't felt necessary to correct? Just out of interest Steve, can you recall what you paid for the Rubber Isolators please? Here is the link to EE site showing some uprated spring retainers for the rear that I have been mulling over for some time now. Below the main pic of the retainers is a another window showing items related to the main pic that other people have purchased as well ie. the rubber isolators. Damn, cant get the link up now to include in this post, sorry mate. If you were to visit thier site www.expeditionexchange.com Then click on products and do a search for "spring retainers" you will see what I talking about mate. I don't know if this will help you in any way but I just thought I would share my thoughts on the subject and ask a few questions at the same time. This is the first thread I have come across regarding the use of the said Isolator springs. Good Luck with you quest mate. Kind Regards, gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 23, 2005 Author Share Posted October 23, 2005 Gary, mine were about £5 each, can't remember exact price. I did immediately notice after swapping back yesterday that the combination of the Monroe gas shocks, the original 175lb springs and the rubber on both ends of them did make the front end ride much better, more like a Discovery in fact a bit more more body roll is noticeable (this is mostly due to the fact that I have a Brownchurch industrial cattle grid on the roof which does nothing for the C of G...) but this is to be expected when swapping from 225lb springs down to 175lb, it is no worse than it used to be with these springs before the isolators were fitted, in fact a little better I think with the increased damping of the Monroes which are a lot stiffer than the std shocks. I think the OME springs most people use are usually about 240lb rating so that is why your ride will be a little choppy, I noticed the difference going from 175lb to 225lb and another increase again would have been too much for me. cheers Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Hi Stephen Thanx for the reply mate. I'm I right to assume by using the additional Isolation rings that I will get an extra little bit of clearance between tyres and the spats? By the same token, am I correct to assume that the castor angle will be that more affected? Cheers Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Yes each isolator adds about 12mm to your height, so if you use them top and bottom you will get an additional 24mm,almost 1" lift. Castor angle and prop shaft angle willbe affected and with 2" lift from your existing springs you probably have some issues like prop shaft vibration etc. The RR and Disco's only used one isolator on each spring at the top and was used to stop noise ofcoilssprings not to add damping. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Hi Steve Thanx for the reply mate, appreciated. Kind Regards, gary B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 23, 2005 Author Share Posted October 23, 2005 I measured the isolators I had (new and used) with calipers and the new ones were 10mm, the ones that I had been sitting on for a while were down to 9mm so I am working on the basis of 18mm lift for the pair, which is exactly the increase in height at the front bumper from original spec to now, having emptied all the cr&p out of the back of the 90 this evening and measured the unladen height. Having been away for a good run today and bounced it up over a smallish mountain there seem to be no problems at all, though the gear lever resonance is still there at a certain speed the vibration you could "feel" has pretty much disappeared so I think it'll be staying the way it is - its a much better ride than either the original spec (with LR dampers) or the HD springs with gas dampers, I am pleased with the result I think the next thing might be to put them on the bottom of the back springs as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadler Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I've got them top and bottom at the rear, and on the bottom on the front, the top fronts being disco 2 rubberised tower retaining rings which effectively do the same thing. I'm very happy, they're cheap and do seem to increase the refinement a bit, in terms of how much so i would say they are infinitely more effective at what they do than Hiclones and Vortex exhausts but they probably share their mental "i've put it on so i'm GOING to notice an improvement" factor. Put them on if you're chaning springs and shocks, i wouldn't bother removing everything just to fit them though, the rear is no problem but the fronts can be an arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 How thick are the Disco 2 rubberised shock tower retainers compared to the isolators? (Yes I know I could take a wheel off and have a look at mine but I can't be bothered ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadler Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 here's some pics, Here's the components before fitting: from top to bottom on the right, spring seat, isolator ring, tower retainer ring close up of the isolator, showing thickness complete assembly in the third picture you can see the skirt of the tower-retainer (the light makes it look a bit silvery, but it is black and rubbery) which looks similar to a dislocation cone. they may not paint a thousand words, but hopefully enough to get the gist of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Hi Chadler I found those pictures are a useful reference. Thanx for posting them mate. Regards, gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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