Defender Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Has anyone had experience of running 37" tyres on a Defender ? (Photo's would also be nice if anyone has any?). I'm just wondering what sort of modifications are needed is a 2" lift enough or do you need a 4"? Do arches need to be trimmed or the body modified? Does larger tyres cause problems with the transmission or can a standard Land Rover drive train cope with the larger tyres? Is there anything else I need to know about running big tyres? My vehicle is my everyday transport as well as my part time challenge truck so it needs to be reliable & if that means sticking with 35" or smaller tyres then that's what I'll do. Thanks in advance. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I have been runnibng 37" Competition Claws on my Defender for about a year now. The truck is a 90 TD5, used mostly offroad, not as a daily driver. I have a 4" suspension lift, extended arches and needed to trim the rear bodywork a bit. Drivetrain is uprated with ARB front and rear along with Ashcroft halfshafts and CVs. Gearing is standard and the TD5 doesn't seem to mind onroad, offroad engine braking is sometimes insufficient and I use 1st more then before. I find it drives quite well onroad, but offcourse the high centre of gravity and big tyres mean it's wise to be an extra carefull driver. Only real problem I've had is with the rose joint on the adjustable panhard rod. It had to much play, causing a death wobble. After a lot of trial and error I machined the head to accept a Range Rover P38a panhard bush, and this has so far performed flawlessly. Main reason for the little road use it sees is the wear on the tyres, which is not only expensive but just a shame as they performe excellent offroad and don't deserve to be chewed up by 1000s of kms on hard surfaces. But I would think twice about using it as a daily anyway, it's great fun occasionally, but not the most conveniant way to get to work every day (although I still enjoy driving the Defender more than I do my Range Rover). A friend of mine put 37" Maxxis tires on his Bel Air, with a 3" lift. It looked great, but he had a lot of vibration problems and rubbing on the bodywork (he's not as crazy as me to put the angle grinder to a relatively new car). He changed back to smaller tyres, mainly because his wife uses the car as a daily driver and it rarely goes offroad. A lot depends on the miles you need to do and the sacrifices you're willing to make. 2 Sets of tyres are obviously a possible solution as well. You can find plenty of pictures of my Defender in my gallery (including older pictures before the lift and 37"). If you have any specific questions, just ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 what is the biggest set of tires i can have on my standard 90 without causing myself any problems, im not afraid of trimming bits off, but whats the max tyres my drive train can take without getting silly. also... this is where the arguments start... what tyres would you advise me to get, for greenlaneing and the occasional pay and play day? AND... what rims are cheap with good offsets...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 255/85R16 are always a good place to start, BFG MT on modulars. You might rub a bit on full articulation, but only just, it depends how supple your current springs are. It's what i've been running for the last 3 years, I do play days with them, and often do 200 mile motorway journeys. 200tdi unfettled will do 65-70 GPS speeds (so about 75 on a normal car speedo) all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 i was looking at BFG mts last night, what pay and play days do you do luke? you live nearish me, i need to get more involved ive been up houndkirk a few times and surrounding green lanes. can you get 255/85R16 baja claws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I've not done much locally, Kirton (A15 south of scunny), and Manby (Louth), I too have been meaning to do more in south yorks, but i've been trying to get on with building the rangie. As far as i know, there's only BFG MT, Wildcat Durango MT and a road pattern (can't remember who's) in 255/85R16. I'd say Baja claws were OTT for greenlaning, and MTs are fine for play days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 Thanks Escape, thats just the kind of info I was after!!! The pictures are excellent thank you Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 255/85R16 are always a good place to start, BFG MT on modulars.You might rub a bit on full articulation, but only just, it depends how supple your current springs are. Same here, I have used 255/85R16 BFG Muds on a non-lifted 90 for almost 2 years, only slight rubbing, especially with people in the back. I did trim the arches a little bit. 255/85 is getting more widespread: Cooper Discoverer STT, Maxxis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 escape can you post a picture of your trimmed arches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Hi Defender my truck cab (200tdi) run 35 FEDIMAS which actually measure a tad under 37". its running a 2" lift and i had to trim front and rear arches, although it depends on what width tyre you intend to use and how stiff your suspension is (mine runs D44 OME springs) Drivetrain wise low 1st isin' t low enough and if your running a manual and do alot of winching you could expect premature clutch wear, i run an underdrive. i am not sure on std drivetrain coping with it easily as i uprated mine prior to fitting them so cant comment. it depends on what off roading you are doing, a 37" spinning wheel suddenly stopping has to displace alot of torque! On road they are fine from a pulling point of view, 5th becomes an overdrive really rarely gets used unless long A road etc. pump has been tweaked a bit. Brakes take some effort! i cant find any pictures side on that show the FEDIMAS with the arches cut. there is one below without the arches cut on FEDIMAS and another showing what i cut on the front for the FEDIMAS to not foul (its on 33" BFGs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 escape can you post a picture of your trimmed arches If you mean for the 255s on standard suspension, I'm sorry, no clear pictures and the arches are sold on. This gives you some idea of both the problem and solution (arches were already trimmed). You could spend some time looking in my gallery to get an idea. Basically I just trimmed the little edges of on the bottom corners of the rear arches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 cheers guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauro1963 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I have been runnibng 37" Competition Claws on my Defender for about a year now.The truck is a 90 TD5, used mostly offroad, not as a daily driver. I have a 4" suspension lift, extended arches and needed to trim the rear bodywork a bit. Drivetrain is uprated with ARB front and rear along with Ashcroft halfshafts and CVs. Gearing is standard and the TD5 doesn't seem to mind onroad, offroad engine braking is sometimes insufficient and I use 1st more then before. I find it drives quite well onroad, but offcourse the high centre of gravity and big tyres mean it's wise to be an extra carefull driver. Only real problem I've had is with the rose joint on the adjustable panhard rod. It had to much play, causing a death wobble. After a lot of trial and error I machined the head to accept a Range Rover P38a panhard bush, and this has so far performed flawlessly. Main reason for the little road use it sees is the wear on the tyres, which is not only expensive but just a shame as they performe excellent offroad and don't deserve to be chewed up by 1000s of kms on hard surfaces. But I would think twice about using it as a daily anyway, it's great fun occasionally, but not the most conveniant way to get to work every day (although I still enjoy driving the Defender more than I do my Range Rover). A friend of mine put 37" Maxxis tires on his Bel Air, with a 3" lift. It looked great, but he had a lot of vibration problems and rubbing on the bodywork (he's not as crazy as me to put the angle grinder to a relatively new car). He changed back to smaller tyres, mainly because his wife uses the car as a daily driver and it rarely goes offroad. A lot depends on the miles you need to do and the sacrifices you're willing to make. 2 Sets of tyres are obviously a possible solution as well. You can find plenty of pictures of my Defender in my gallery (including older pictures before the lift and 37"). If you have any specific questions, just ask. Hi, sorry for my bad english, I'm planning about put 37" 14.50/15 maxxis on my 110 with stock ring&pinion, as i can read here there's no need change them, anyway i'm thinking about mount underdrive to keep the possibility to run back on 255/85 or 35, i will take your idea of p38's panhard heard about problems with steering box, is right that? someone changed or flanked the box with farm tractor plunger, you think is necessary? Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hi, sorry for my bad english,I'm planning about put 37" 14.50/15 maxxis on my 110 with stock ring&pinion, as i can read here there's no need change them, anyway i'm thinking about mount underdrive to keep the possibility to run back on 255/85 or 35, i will take your idea of p38's panhard heard about problems with steering box, is right that? someone changed or flanked the box with farm tractor plunger, you think is necessary? Thx 14.50 is quite wide, this could add a considerable load when driving, so I'm not sure how the engine will cope, especially on soft surfaces. An underdrive would certainly be a good idea to give you more control and engine-braking when offroad. But it's a bit expensive for my taste at the moments. So far I have not had any problems with the steering, so I don't think hydraulic assist (ie tractor plunger) will be necesary. If you do install hydro-steer, you will put a lot more strain on the steering and track rod and their joint, so they should be reinforeced as well. If you fit the tyres, don't forget to show us a picture! B) Greetz, Filip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dikiy Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Sorry guys, what is difference between D1 panhard bush ANR3410 and P38 panhard bush ANR3671? I want to modify panhard rod on may Disco'93 by adding of two rose joints from Mercedes and adjustable thread joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Sorry guys, what is difference between D1 panhard bush ANR3410 and P38 panhard bush ANR3671? I want to modify panhard rod on may Disco'93 by adding of two rose joints from Mercedes and adjustable thread joint. The diameter is slightly different, IIRC. I had a rose joint fail, and decided to replace it with an OEM bush. Standard Defenders issue was impossible to fit, but with a minimum of machining, the P38a bush was a perfect match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dikiy Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 The diameter is slightly different, IIRC. I had a rose joint fail, and decided to replace it with an OEM bush. Standard Defenders issue was impossible to fit, but with a minimum of machining, the P38a bush was a perfect match. It mean that P38 bush is the same rubber bush as D1 but bigger. One more question. Why You replace rose joint by rubber bush? And what You can say about homemade adjustable panhard with two rose joints? Sorry for off, but it wary important for me, because I want to start on this weekends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 It mean that P38 bush is the same rubber bush as D1 but bigger. Yeah, I think the P38a bush is bigger. One more question. Why You replace rose joint by rubber bush? And what You can say about homemade adjustable panhard with two rose joints?Sorry for off, but it wary important for me, because I want to start on this weekends The rose joint had too mcuh play in it and caused a death wobble around 50-60 km/h. A replacement was not immediately available and I wasn't keen on paying again for a new one. So I decided to go with a rubber bush, after some trial and error the P38a's turned out to be a perfect match. Why do you want to change tot rose joints wehn rubber does the job just as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 what is the biggest set of tires i can have on my standard 90 without causing myself any problems,im not afraid of trimming bits off, but whats the max tyres my drive train can take without getting silly. The biggest tyre size you could run on 10spline defender axles without lockers, and without fear of axle breakages is 205/80 R16, preferably in road pattern and almost bald Anything bigger or more aggressive and you will almost certainly see differential or halfshaft failure if used offroad without being very carefull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dikiy Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Thank You Escape .... death wobble around 50-60 km/...Why do you want to change tot rose joints when rubber does the job just as well? This shimmy is coming time to time. Usually go away after punhard bush replacement. This why I decide to go with rose joints. I was read a lot of technical literature and find one important thing yesterday evening. The panhard rod should be horizontal as much as possible. My disco have 3"and 3,5" lift..... I decide to postpone with RJ and will try to make panhard in parallel with axel. Thank ones more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Thank You EscapeThis shimmy is coming time to time. Usually go away after punhard bush replacement. This why I decide to go with rose joints. I was read a lot of technical literature and find one important thing yesterday evening. The panhard rod should be horizontal as much as possible. My disco have 3"and 3,5" lift..... I decide to postpone with RJ and will try to make panhard in parallel with axel. Thank ones more I think we can help each other here. Do you have a link to the literature, or was it on paper or in Ukranian? I have thought about making the panhard sit more horizontal, lengthening the upper bracket is not too difficult, but the forces on it would be huge. Perhaps it would be possible to relocate the existing bracket higher up the axle. I don't think I will bother with it, as it drives fine at the moment and if I get shaking I'll just replace the bushing, as it is very cheap and not much work. You should also check the bearings and steering balljoints for play, they can cause extra load on the panhard as well. In time I'm planning to build a 3-link front suspension with an A-frame as on the rear (or a comparable triangulated 4-link), thus eliminating the need for a panhard rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dikiy Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Escape I think we have to open new topic about panhard and front suspension mods In time I'm planning to build a 3-link front suspension with an A-frame as on the rear I have thought about this too... Still in the mind for future projects, not for this expedition car I have thought about making the panhard sit more horizontal, lengthening the upper bracket is not too difficult, but the forces on it would be huge. Perhaps it would be possible to relocate the existing bracket higher up the axle I'll try to lengthen axel bracket for 2" by welding You should also check the bearings and steering balljoints for play, they can cause extra load on the panhard as well. Everything is OK Do you have a link to the literature, or was it on paper or in Ukranian? Yes, I have the link, but this book in russian. Really good book described principles of design chassis, stearing, suspensions which used in world-famous cars. "Fahrwerktechnik 1" written by german author J. Reimpell and other books of this man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deslandes Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Hi Defender my truck cab (200tdi) run 35 FEDIMAS which actually measure a tad under 37". its running a 2" lift and i had to trim front and rear arches, although it depends on what width tyre you intend to use and how stiff your suspension is (mine runs D44 OME springs) Drivetrain wise low 1st isin' t low enough and if your running a manual and do alot of winching you could expect premature clutch wear, i run an underdrive. i am not sure on std drivetrain coping with it easily as i uprated mine prior to fitting them so cant comment. it depends on what off roading you are doing, a 37" spinning wheel suddenly stopping has to displace alot of torque! On road they are fine from a pulling point of view, 5th becomes an overdrive really rarely gets used unless long A road etc. pump has been tweaked a bit. Brakes take some effort! i cant find any pictures side on that show the FEDIMAS with the arches cut. there is one below without the arches cut on FEDIMAS and another showing what i cut on the front for the FEDIMAS to not foul (its on 33" BFGs) Good afternoon, I'm seriously thinking of fitting an underdrive on my 90". Characteristics : - 35"x10.5"x16" SSr (in fact 84.25" real) - 300 tdi - Halfshaft Ashcroft front and rear are coming - Bigger intercooler and pump optimized - truetrac's front and rear In fact, everything is working perfectly on road, 70mph without any problem is 5th gear but a problems when offroading. For example, see this video (9min30) this slope was unsucessful in 1st gear (wheel turning too fast) and sluggish in 2nd... I think with underdrive, I could have try in 1st underlow, after 2nd, 3rd etc..., What is your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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